Scud running fatal in Maine

This accident was up our way and I followed the progress of the search. On
the basis of the weather on the day the plane disappeared, I expected to
find that it was a new pilot in over her head. Just goes to show that lots
of experience and type ratings don't make scud running a good idea. 14,500
hour big iron driver with 20 years in float planes who could have filed and
executed an IFR flight plan in her sleep hits a hill in 700 foot ceilings.

Another high time Mainer who could have been IFR up above the hills did the
same thing a few years back and set a great example for the Air Explorers
Troop he founded. They are naming a new Boy Scout center near PWM after
him.

http://www2.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?...18X01248&key=1

--

Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:

[A] 14,500
hour big iron driver with 20 years in float planes who could have filed and
executed an IFR flight plan in her sleep hits a hill in 700 foot ceilings.

I didn't know they have instrument approaches to lakes.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 02:30:00 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:

I didn't know they have instrument approaches to lakes.


If I recall correctly the Seattle area has some (a couple). Not sure
if its on the US or Canadian side though.

z

"zatatime" wrote in message
...
I didn't know they have instrument approaches to lakes.


If I recall correctly the Seattle area has some (a couple). Not sure
if its on the US or Canadian side though.

Sort of. There are no instrument approaches to waterways per se, but we
have several seaplane bases close enough to airports with instrument
approaches that for all intents and purposes, they might as well have
instrument approaches.

Non-precision, of course, but that's almost always good enough.

One is at Renton, WA where seaplanes can taxi right up to the airport and
get a dolly out of the water. Another is at Lake Union...an instrument
approach into Boeing Field will get you down low enough to "circle to land"
on Lake Union (which is adjacent to the north end of the Seattle downtown
area).

Heck, a really determined pilot could fly the approach to Renton, and then
taxi the entire length of the lake all the way up to Kenmore. I forget what
the width of the under-bridge passage is, so maybe they'd have to fly 100'
off the water, but that'd be no big deal in a seaplane.

Similar things apply in the Victoria and Vancouver area, as well as many
other major seaplane destinations in the PNW.

Same thing probably applies at at least one airport near a landable waterway
in the general vicinity of the reported accident in Maine.

Coincidentally, we just had a scud-running accident here in the Northwest,
not too far from Vancouver, WA (across the river from Portland). Amazingly
enough, three out of four survived.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
Heck, a really determined pilot could fly the approach to Renton, and then
taxi the entire length of the lake all the way up to Kenmore. I forget
what
the width of the under-bridge passage is, so maybe they'd have to fly 100'
off the water, but that'd be no big deal in a seaplane.

100' over a bridge? Any idea how the FAA/UK CAA define "while taking
off or landing"? If you're in the process of landing, just making a very
shallow
approach, could you still be prosecuted for low flying?!

Paul

"Paul Sengupta" wrote in message
...
100' over a bridge? Any idea how the FAA/UK CAA define "while taking
off or landing"? If you're in the process of landing, just making a very
shallow approach, could you still be prosecuted for low flying?!

The part you'd fly over is a floating bridge, probably only 30-40' off the
water. In any case, even 500' would be sufficient, if you don't buy the
idea that an airplane transitioning from an instrument approach to its
destination is landing.

Pete

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:48:36 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

snip

Coincidentally, we just had a scud-running accident here in the Northwest,
not too far from Vancouver, WA (across the river from Portland). Amazingly
enough, three out of four survived.

Pete

We headed home to the Seattle area from same fly-in (McMinnville, OR)
a couple hours before the accident aircraft. The front was moving
east at 15 knots, so it didn't take long for the "door to get closed".

Several other friends left McMinnville about the same time as the
accident aircraft, and they couldn't get any further north than
Scappoose, so they landed, borrowed the airport car and got a hotel.

Bela P. Havasreti

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"zatatime" wrote in message
...
I didn't know they have instrument approaches to lakes.


If I recall correctly the Seattle area has some (a couple). Not sure
if its on the US or Canadian side though.

Sort of. There are no instrument approaches to waterways per se, but we
have several seaplane bases close enough to airports with instrument
approaches that for all intents and purposes, they might as well have
instrument approaches.

Non-precision, of course, but that's almost always good enough.

Felts Field in Spokane is designated to have three runways, one of which is
3W/21W. The nonprecision approaches don't forbid circling, so that says to
me this is a waterway with an instrument approach.

Hmmm.. however circling is not allowed to the northwest. Is the waterway NW
or SE of the hard-top? Don't know.

-- David Brooks

They don't in Maine. I was just pointing out that all that IFR skill
doesn't change the low level VFR in IMC equation.

Her option would have been to wait for better weather or climb and file pop
up for diversion to an airport with an approach if things were lower than
she thought. Of course, that could have meant revealing that she set off on
a less than legal VFR flight which might have had repercussions for her
employment. Perhaps she was subject to pressures a non-professional pilot
wouldn't have been.

The other Maine scud runner was on a flight from an approach to an approach.
He hit a treeless, snow covered hill that probably looked just like the mist
he was flying under.

--

Roger Long



"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Roger Long wrote:

[A] 14,500
hour big iron driver with 20 years in float planes who could have filed
and
executed an IFR flight plan in her sleep hits a hill in 700 foot
ceilings.

I didn't know they have instrument approaches to lakes.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Of course, that could have meant revealing that she set off on
a less than legal VFR flight

The flight may have been unwise, but wasn't the weather (as reported at MLT)
legal for daytime VFR in Class G as long as she stayed below the 700'
ceiling?

--Gary