Flying to Russia. . .

Suppose you wanted to fly from Alaska to Russia, in a typical single
engine GA aircraft like the 172. From mainland Alaska to mainland
Russia is about 55 nautical miles. Are you going to make preparations
for the possibility of a water landing?

I have read a few accounts where people did. I don't really see why you
would bother. Here is why I think that. What maybe those who would
don't know, is there are 2 small inhabited (by a hundred of so Eskimos)
islands at about the mid way point. You will never be more than 15
miles from land. If you fly at 12,000 feet or higher you should easily
be able to glide that far shouldn't you?

Yes I know about all (well maybe not ALL) the problems of flying a GA
plane in Russia (lack of AV gas, need to speak Russian or take a
translator with you, tons of paper work. . .) I am just dreaming about
potential future plans. Anyone here made such a trip?


--
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"Chris W" wrote in message
news:HSzXc.6635$gl.1041@okepread07...
Suppose you wanted to fly from Alaska to Russia, in a typical single

Chris,

If you are seriously interested, I can put you in touch with AOPA Russia and
they will assist
you in making your dream a reality.

Best regards

HECTOP
PP-ASEL-IA
http://www.maxho.com
maxho_at_maxho.com

I have read a few accounts where people did. I don't really see why you
would bother. Here is why I think that. What maybe those who would
don't know, is there are 2 small inhabited (by a hundred of so Eskimos)
islands at about the mid way point.

Fine, but you also have to get out to the tip of the Aleutians to begin
with. Anyway you look at it, you are going to flying over some decent
stretches of water to pull off this trip. The water survival gear could
very well come in handy Of course, given the water temps in that part of
the world, you would have to fly wearing the survival suit, and you would
need to get that raft deployed pretty darn fast after you hit the water.
But that's another conversation entirely.

If you fly at 12,000 feet or higher you should easily
be able to glide that far shouldn't you?

Of course, at that altitude you have other things to worry about, too.


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"Geoffrey Barnes" wrote:
I have read a few accounts where people did. I don't really see why you
would bother. Here is why I think that. What maybe those who would
don't know, is there are 2 small inhabited (by a hundred of so Eskimos)
islands at about the mid way point.

Fine, but you also have to get out to the tip of the Aleutians to begin
with. Anyway you look at it, you are going to flying over some decent
stretches of water to pull off this trip. The water survival gear could

Try looking at a map! The Diomede Islands are a *long* ways
from the Aleutians, and no over water flight is necessary until
one is within 50 miles of Russia.

very well come in handy Of course, given the water temps in that part of
the world, you would have to fly wearing the survival suit, and you would
need to get that raft deployed pretty darn fast after you hit the water.
But that's another conversation entirely.

Depends on what time of year. From January through March, the
Bering Straits is more ice than not, though landing on it might
not be something an inexperienced pilot would want to try.

If you fly at 12,000 feet or higher you should easily
be able to glide that far shouldn't you?

Of course, at that altitude you have other things to worry about, too.

People have been flying Super Cubs back and forth between Russia
and the US for decades! It took a little brass to do it while
the Cold War was on, but some people did in fact have the brass.

There has been a US radar station right on the tip of the Bering
Straits since the mid-1950's, and there has been a Russian
fighter base just across the Straits and a little farther south
since WWII. In the 1950's and 60's (before the 1972 Marine
Mammal Protection Act) it was very profitable to hunt polar
bears in the area in between, on the winter ice. The Ruskies
were very sociable and would invite everyone down for cup of
coffee! A few folks would risk it, and declare an "emergency"
so they could land to take them up on it!

On the other hand, if you take a boat to Big Diomede, even
today, you'll wind up in a Russian jail cell while they
negotiate your release. It might be a shorter wait if you head
for Siberia itself in a boat.

And landing at the radar station (Tin City Long Range Radar
Site) without prior permission will get you into just about the
exact same situation as landing on Russian soil!

The Bering Straits is about 45-50 miles across. The Diomede
Islands are in the middle, and are about 2.5 miles apart. Big
Diomede is uninhabited (since the beginning of the Cold War,
when all civilians were moved to Siberia) except for Russian
military personnel (and I don't know if they are still there
today or not). Little Diomede has an Inupiat Eskimo village
with a population of about 130 people.

There is no runway on Little Diomede Island. In the summer
the only access is via helicopter and boat. In the winter
a runway is made on the sea ice. It is 28 miles by boat from
the village to the tip of the US side of the Bering Straits,
where the village of Wales is on the north side, and the
base camp for the Tin City radar station is on the south side.

(I've been to both Wales and Tin City on many occasions as well
as to Savoonga and Gambell on St. Lawrence Island, but never
made it to Diomede or Siberia.)

I would suggest an extended trip to Nome, and a few months
learning to fly in the Arctic before anyone try something like
visiting Russia. The OP also might want to take a course or two
in international diplomacy, or maybe get a law degree! The
paperwork involved is something only a real lawyer would ever
find exciting.

--
FloydL. Davidson http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

Geoffrey Barnes wrote:

Fine, but you also have to get out to the tip of the Aleutians to begin
with.


From the last island in the Aleutian chain to the Russian mainland is
well over 400 miles. And that island only has a military base on it and
they won't let civilian aircraft land there anyway. From the closest
civilian runway in the Aleutian chain to mainland Russia is over 1000
miles. Even if I had the range and wasn't worried about a water
landing, I wouldn't cross there because of the very bad and rapidly
changing weather.

What I am talking about is starting from Wales, which is about 100 miles
NNW or Nome. That water crossing never puts you more than 15 miles
from land. However, from what I have read about Little Diomede Island,
if you have to make a forced landing there, you are almost certain to
destroy the plane. While the weather there is just as bad, you need
less than an one hour window to make it from Wales Alaska, to a runway
in Russia. In the plane I want to do it in, you only need about 25 minute.

If you fly at 12,000 feet or higher . . .


Of course, at that altitude you have other things to worry about, too.


Other than needing O2 what? I would only do it under good VFR
conditions in the summer time. There is still be the possibility of
icing, but is that going to become a big enough problem in a 30 minute
flight that it will force you down?

--
Chris W

Bring Back the HP 15C
http://hp15c.org

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HECTOP wrote:


Chris,

If you are seriously interested, I can put you in touch with AOPA Russia and
they will assist you in making your dream a reality.

Thanks for the tip, I didn't know that AOPA had resources to help with a
flight into Russia. This dream is still years in the future though, but
I will keep that in mind.

--
Chris W

Bring Back the HP 15C
http://hp15c.org

Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help.
http://thewishzone.com

Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

. . .
On the other hand, if you take a boat to Big Diomede, even
today, you'll wind up in a Russian jail cell while they
negotiate your release.


What if you have to make a forced landing there. From what I can gather
about Little Diomede, there is little to no chance of a forced landing
there ending in anything short of a totaled aircraft.

I would suggest an extended trip to Nome, and a few months
learning to fly in the Arctic before anyone try something like
visiting Russia.

That sounds like a great idea, although a few months sounds a bit much
to me. Maybe a few weeks?


The OP also might want to take a course or two
in international diplomacy, or maybe get a law degree! The
paperwork involved is something only a real lawyer would ever
find exciting.

Hopefully the AOPA can help with the paper work, but I do plan on
learning Russian, at least a little and enough to know aviation lingo in
Russian.

--
Chris W

Bring Back the HP 15C
http://hp15c.org

Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help.
http://thewishzone.com

Chris W wrote:
Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

. . .
On the other hand, if you take a boat to Big Diomede, even
today, you'll wind up in a Russian jail cell while they
negotiate your release.

What if you have to make a forced landing there. From what I
can gather about Little Diomede, there is little to no chance of
a forced landing there ending in anything short of a totaled
aircraft.

In the summer, that's a fact!

But over most of Alaska you aren't close enough to an airport
that you can make an emergency landing and expect anything less
than a totaled aircraft. There are no roads and no farm
fields... it's into the trees, onto the tundra, into the drink,
or splattering onto the rocks. And every hundred miles or so
there's a place you can land. I've only met one person who's
ever had an engine failure just happen to happen close to an
airport... (other than fuel starvation from an empty tank).

I would suggest an extended trip to Nome, and a few months
learning to fly in the Arctic before anyone try something like
visiting Russia.

That sounds like a great idea, although a few months sounds a
bit much to me. Maybe a few weeks?

Okay, but *I* won't be going for ride with you! ;-)

The OP also might want to take a course or two
in international diplomacy, or maybe get a law degree! The
paperwork involved is something only a real lawyer would ever
find exciting.

Hopefully the AOPA can help with the paper work, but I do plan
on learning Russian, at least a little and enough to know
aviation lingo in Russian.

Incidentally, we've had several Russian pilots work for one or
another air taxi outfits here in Barrow over the years. Every
single one of them struck me as excellent pilots, which says
something because while I'm not nervous at all about airplanes,
it's a fact that pilots scare me to death!

--
FloydL. Davidson http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

Chris W wrote:

What I am talking about is starting from Wales, which is about
100 miles NNW or Nome. That water crossing never puts you more
than 15 miles from land. However, from what I have read about
Little Diomede Island, if you have to make a forced landing
there, you are almost certain to destroy the plane. While the
weather there is just as bad, you need less than an one hour
window to make it from Wales Alaska, to a runway in Russia. In
the plane I want to do it in, you only need about 25 minute.

Think about how you are going to get to Wales in the first place
though, because quite frankly there isn't really much special
about flying from Wales to Siberia other than the administrative
hassle. You're going to experience a lot more "risk", as far as
terrain goes, getting to Nome than you will from Nome north and
then west. Going north from Nome you can follow the road to
Teller, and then you fly right over Brevig Mission on the way to
Tin City and over to Wales. There's only a 45 mile or so stretch
there with no place to land.

But to get to Nome you'll have to go to Kaltag and from there
to either Unalakleet or Shaktoolik, both over 60 miles.

And the only way to get there is probably flying down the
Yukon River... for example between Tanana and Ruby.

Another thing you'll need to plan very carefully is where you
can and cannot buy av gas. For example, I'm sure you can buy it
in Nome, Unalakleet and Galena, maybe in Ruby, but I doubt
you'll find any at Shaktoolik, Teller, Brevig Mission or Wales.
Hard to say about Tanana or Kaltag.

One thing you need to know as far as gas goes too, do *not*
look it up in some reference guide and then depend on what
it said. Get somebody on the phone in each place and verify
they have gasoline and will sell it to you on the day and at
the time you need it.

--
FloydL. Davidson http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

It is 267 NM, Nome (PAOM) up to Wales AK (IWK) the directly across to
Russia, then down the coast to Providinia (UHMD), Russia which is the
closest Russian airport. Certainly doable in a small plane. Fuel is
certainly available in Nome, doubtful in Wales, and is probably
available in Provedinia, assuming you have cut through all the red
tape, I'm sure you will find out about fuel also.

Although the flight does cross about 50 NM of ocean there is an island
1/2 way.

Once you fly from lower 48 to Nome, you will be used to flying over
hostile terrain, and the terrain on this flight is no worse than what
got you to Nome.
There are no roads to Nome. One cool thing about flying in Alaska, you
can fly places you can only reach by airplane, (and boat in Nome's
case).

Chris W wrote in message news:HSzXc.6635$gl.1041@okepread07...
Suppose you wanted to fly from Alaska to Russia, in a typical single
engine GA aircraft like the 172. From mainland Alaska to mainland
Russia is about 55 nautical miles. Are you going to make preparations
for the possibility of a water landing?

I have read a few accounts where people did. I don't really see why you
would bother. Here is why I think that. What maybe those who would
don't know, is there are 2 small inhabited (by a hundred of so Eskimos)
islands at about the mid way point. You will never be more than 15
miles from land. If you fly at 12,000 feet or higher you should easily
be able to glide that far shouldn't you?

Yes I know about all (well maybe not ALL) the problems of flying a GA
plane in Russia (lack of AV gas, need to speak Russian or take a
translator with you, tons of paper work. . .) I am just dreaming about
potential future plans. Anyone here made such a trip?