Aero tow cost estimation

I need a detailed spreadsheet or work-up on tow plane costs. Anybody have one?

On Monday, July 7, 2014 3:08:00 PM UTC-7, Bill D wrote:
I need a detailed spreadsheet or work-up on tow plane costs. Anybody have one?

Bill -

I've done a ton of work looking into towplane costs over the last 4 years for my club. I have extremely detailed breakdowns of costs and maintenance and all kinds of good stuff. But unfortunately its very hard to provide you a spreadsheet that would accurately predict _your_ costs, because so much depends on:
1) What aircraft you're using
2) How the aircraft is equipped and under what conditions its used
3) Local costs of fuel & storage
4) How it is maintained
5) Whether you need to save money to have cash-on-hand for long-term maintenance items or whether you can finance these things over time

There are a lot of generalities that I can give you; but without knowing more I can't provide meaningful numbers.

Care to explain the situation and/or what information you're seeking to learn, specifically?

Take care,

--Noel

I was hoping to find a spreadsheet where I could plug in variables like TBO, overhaul cost, fuel consumption, fuel price etc... Failing that, a workup for one tug might provide a methodology from which I could create my own spreadsheet.

On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 1:24:43 PM UTC-6, noel.wade wrote:
On Monday, July 7, 2014 3:08:00 PM UTC-7, Bill D wrote:

I need a detailed spreadsheet or work-up on tow plane costs. Anybody have one?



Bill -



I've done a ton of work looking into towplane costs over the last 4 years for my club. I have extremely detailed breakdowns of costs and maintenance and all kinds of good stuff. But unfortunately its very hard to provide you a spreadsheet that would accurately predict _your_ costs, because so much depends on:

1) What aircraft you're using

2) How the aircraft is equipped and under what conditions its used

3) Local costs of fuel & storage

4) How it is maintained

5) Whether you need to save money to have cash-on-hand for long-term maintenance items or whether you can finance these things over time



There are a lot of generalities that I can give you; but without knowing more I can't provide meaningful numbers.



Care to explain the situation and/or what information you're seeking to learn, specifically?



Take care,



--Noel

On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 12:49:40 PM UTC-7, Bill D wrote:
I was hoping to find a spreadsheet where I could plug in variables like TBO, overhaul cost, fuel consumption, fuel price etc... Failing that, a workup for one tug might provide a methodology from which I could create my own spreadsheet.


Bill - I'm not trying to be obtuse; but it really does depend on a LOT of factors. Here are a few of the major factors:
1) The operational environment (club vs commercial, for example)
2) How you use the ship (regular tows? lots of high tows? double-tows? new towpilot checkout?)
3) Runway surface and condition (smooth grass, rough grass, compact dirt, asphalt, ??)
4) What kind of ship you use (Pawnee? SuperCub? Cherokee or C-182?)
5) How many tows per year you expect to do
6) How many total towplanes will you be operating
7) Local weather (goes to your hangar/storage requirements and how many months out of the year you can use the airplane)?
8) Financial "style" of your business/club (do you require a funded reserve account so that you can pay cash for maintenance and repairs when items hit their expected life-limit; or is using credit or loans - either commercial or private - an option)?
9) Commercial use of your equipment - Are you offering a lot of commercial glider rides, or flight instruction, or other use that requires you to pay taxes and/or perform more-frequent inspections on your towplane?

These items need to be decided/outlined before any accurate numbers can be factored - otherwise you're just firing blind.

Take care,

--Noel

On Sunday, July 13, 2014 11:05:38 AM UTC-6, noel.wade wrote:
On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 12:49:40 PM UTC-7, Bill D wrote:

I was hoping to find a spreadsheet where I could plug in variables like TBO, overhaul cost, fuel consumption, fuel price etc... Failing that, a workup for one tug might provide a methodology from which I could create my own spreadsheet.





Bill - I'm not trying to be obtuse; but it really does depend on a LOT of factors. Here are a few of the major factors:

1) The operational environment (club vs commercial, for example)

2) How you use the ship (regular tows? lots of high tows? double-tows? new towpilot checkout?)

3) Runway surface and condition (smooth grass, rough grass, compact dirt, asphalt, ??)

4) What kind of ship you use (Pawnee? SuperCub? Cherokee or C-182?)

5) How many tows per year you expect to do

6) How many total towplanes will you be operating

7) Local weather (goes to your hangar/storage requirements and how many months out of the year you can use the airplane)?

8) Financial "style" of your business/club (do you require a funded reserve account so that you can pay cash for maintenance and repairs when items hit their expected life-limit; or is using credit or loans - either commercial or private - an option)?

9) Commercial use of your equipment - Are you offering a lot of commercial glider rides, or flight instruction, or other use that requires you to pay taxes and/or perform more-frequent inspections on your towplane?



These items need to be decided/outlined before any accurate numbers can be factored - otherwise you're just firing blind.



Take care,



--Noel

Noel, you are not being obtuse at all - your points are excellent. I agree, there are a lOT of variables. To be clear, I'm not looking for actual costs because, as you say, they vary a lot from site to site for a lot of reasons.

I was just hoping someone had put all (or most) of those variables into a really big spreadsheet so different tug operations could plug in their particulars to more easily understand and budget their tug costs.

Bill,

I think I have what you are basically looking for. You'll have to adjust the variables for your scenario, but I did this breakdown years ago.

What has continually been a factor outside the ability to capture in a spreadsheet are the unexpected costs. The engine that hadn't been run routinely for the last 10 years or whatever prior to our acquisition and subsequent internal corrosion that resulted in a rebuild at 1200hrs instead of 2000.

Or the "oops" hangar rash that adds $2000 to your costs by surprise. The general stuff is pretty easy to calculate and pad for based on hours or tows..

Morgan



On Sunday, July 13, 2014 12:04:37 PM UTC-7, Bill D wrote:
On Sunday, July 13, 2014 11:05:38 AM UTC-6, noel.wade wrote:

On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 12:49:40 PM UTC-7, Bill D wrote:



I was hoping to find a spreadsheet where I could plug in variables like TBO, overhaul cost, fuel consumption, fuel price etc... Failing that, a workup for one tug might provide a methodology from which I could create my own spreadsheet.











Bill - I'm not trying to be obtuse; but it really does depend on a LOT of factors. Here are a few of the major factors:



1) The operational environment (club vs commercial, for example)



2) How you use the ship (regular tows? lots of high tows? double-tows? new towpilot checkout?)



3) Runway surface and condition (smooth grass, rough grass, compact dirt, asphalt, ??)



4) What kind of ship you use (Pawnee? SuperCub? Cherokee or C-182?)



5) How many tows per year you expect to do



6) How many total towplanes will you be operating



7) Local weather (goes to your hangar/storage requirements and how many months out of the year you can use the airplane)?



8) Financial "style" of your business/club (do you require a funded reserve account so that you can pay cash for maintenance and repairs when items hit their expected life-limit; or is using credit or loans - either commercial or private - an option)?



9) Commercial use of your equipment - Are you offering a lot of commercial glider rides, or flight instruction, or other use that requires you to pay taxes and/or perform more-frequent inspections on your towplane?







These items need to be decided/outlined before any accurate numbers can be factored - otherwise you're just firing blind.







Take care,







--Noel



Noel, you are not being obtuse at all - your points are excellent. I agree, there are a lOT of variables. To be clear, I'm not looking for actual costs because, as you say, they vary a lot from site to site for a lot of reasons.



I was just hoping someone had put all (or most) of those variables into a really big spreadsheet so different tug operations could plug in their particulars to more easily understand and budget their tug costs.