opinions on a K13

I am a member of the council for my University gliding club - fairly new
compared to most of the people in this forum, but hey i enjoy it.

We currently own a K13 aircraft with a (fairly) serviceable trailer.

we have been offered an Acro with no trailer, and in order to buy it we
will need to sell our K13.

I was wondering whether it would be worth it - because the deal we have
been offered for the acro is not massivly great. and there are several
drawbacks.

mainly -

asking for a grant from the university.
selling the k13
not having a trailer with it.

Just wondering what some of the more experienced people think.

Thanks,

Keep the K-13!
it's one of the best and sweetest trainers ever made!
not just MHO but shared by 100's all over the world! For a trainer and just
plain nice ole ship to fly everything else is just at best a giant leap
sideways! )
tim

"Scott Macleman" wrote in message
...
I am a member of the council for my University gliding club - fairly new
compared to most of the people in this forum, but hey i enjoy it.

We currently own a K13 aircraft with a (fairly) serviceable trailer.

we have been offered an Acro with no trailer, and in order to buy it we
will need to sell our K13.

I was wondering whether it would be worth it - because the deal we have
been offered for the acro is not massivly great. and there are several
drawbacks.

mainly -

asking for a grant from the university.
selling the k13
not having a trailer with it.

Just wondering what some of the more experienced people think.

Thanks,

If you REALLY NEED the extra L/D for flying farther afield that MIGHT
be a slight reason to consider the Acro. Other than that replacing an
ASK13 with a trailerless Acro would probably be a bad move. Actually,
with no trailer available you would have to be even more conservative
and stay closer to the field with the Acro than the ASK13. The Acro
also hasn't been given the "plastic pig" nickname for nothing. Heavy
to fly, heavy to rig and, currently, not even aerobatic thank's to an
A.D.

Scott Macleman wrote:

I am a member of the council for my University gliding club - fairly new
compared to most of the people in this forum, but hey i enjoy it.

We currently own a K13 aircraft with a (fairly) serviceable trailer.

we have been offered an Acro with no trailer, and in order to buy it we
will need to sell our K13.

I was wondering whether it would be worth it - because the deal we have
been offered for the acro is not massivly great. and there are several
drawbacks.

I have to agree with those who think the ASK-13 is just about the nicest
trainer around. Especially, if you have a hangar to keep it in. I'll
bet you'll get more fun for the money by keeping the ASK-13, and getting
a grant from the university for a nice low cost single place ship, like
a Libelle or Standard Cirrus...

Marc

Dear Nowhere!!

If you actually knew anything at all about this you
would know that the nickname of plastic pig was actually
regarding the earlier Twin Astir and NOT the completly
different Twin II Acro on which thousands of people
have learnt to fly. And as for the AD banning aerobatics,
again if you knew what you were talking about you would
know that the Twin II Acro limitations have been lifted
to allow it to do the same aerobatics (including spinning)
as a K13, only rolling and inverted is still currently
unallowed without modification and this type of flying
is definitaly only for those who have recieved training
in this fine art.
An Acro can be taken out in stronger winds (with care)
than you would do with a K13 and the maintenance will
be a lot less on a GRP 2 seater than an ageing K13.
The K13 is a nice glider, I learnt to fly on one but
times move on, I am sure the old pilots flying T21's
and T31's reacted the same when the K13 came along.
Let go of your inhibitions and move with the times
or else you may stay nowhere for ever!.



At 04:36 27 April 2004, Nowhere wrote:
If you REALLY NEED the extra L/D for flying farther
afield that MIGHT
be a slight reason to consider the Acro. Other than
that replacing an
ASK13 with a trailerless Acro would probably be a bad
move. Actually,
with no trailer available you would have to be even
more conservative
and stay closer to the field with the Acro than the
ASK13. The Acro
also hasn't been given the 'plastic pig' nickname for
nothing. Heavy
to fly, heavy to rig and, currently, not even aerobatic
thank's to an
A.D.

mark

I agree with Mark. Although the k13 is a very good trainer, a Twin is
definitively a step upward which still allows a very good ab initio
training. Any concrete advice depends on the exact deal, but a Twin without
trailer (which can be bought second hand, too) is, hm, sub-optimal.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Mark Davies" a écrit dans le
message de ...
Dear Nowhere!!

If you actually knew anything at all about this you
would know that the nickname of plastic pig was actually
regarding the earlier Twin Astir and NOT the completly
different Twin II Acro on which thousands of people
have learnt to fly. And as for the AD banning aerobatics,
again if you knew what you were talking about you would
know that the Twin II Acro limitations have been lifted
to allow it to do the same aerobatics (including spinning)
as a K13, only rolling and inverted is still currently
unallowed without modification and this type of flying
is definitaly only for those who have recieved training
in this fine art.
An Acro can be taken out in stronger winds (with care)
than you would do with a K13 and the maintenance will
be a lot less on a GRP 2 seater than an ageing K13.
The K13 is a nice glider, I learnt to fly on one but
times move on, I am sure the old pilots flying T21's
and T31's reacted the same when the K13 came along.
Let go of your inhibitions and move with the times
or else you may stay nowhere for ever!.



At 04:36 27 April 2004, Nowhere wrote:
If you REALLY NEED the extra L/D for flying farther
afield that MIGHT
be a slight reason to consider the Acro. Other than
that replacing an
ASK13 with a trailerless Acro would probably be a bad
move. Actually,
with no trailer available you would have to be even
more conservative
and stay closer to the field with the Acro than the
ASK13. The Acro
also hasn't been given the 'plastic pig' nickname for
nothing. Heavy
to fly, heavy to rig and, currently, not even aerobatic
thank's to an
A.D.

mark

Mark Davies wrote in message
If you actually knew anything at all about this you
would know that the nickname of plastic pig was actually
regarding the earlier Twin Astir and NOT the completly
different Twin II Acro on which thousands of people
have learnt to fly.

Well actually my club has BOTH a Twin II Acro and a Twin Astir and,
with many hours in both, I find the Astir to be much nicer to fly! The
ailerons on the Astir, though just as heavy as the Acro, actually ROLL
the aircraft and the spoilers don't snatch the way they do on the
Acro. Admittedly the back seat on the Acro is a huge improvement on
the Astir.

And as for the AD banning aerobatics,
again if you knew what you were talking about you would
know that the Twin II Acro limitations have been lifted
to allow it to do the same aerobatics (including spinning)
as a K13, only rolling and inverted is still currently
unallowed without modification and this type of flying
is definitaly only for those who have recieved training
in this fine art.

You're right about the A.D of course. It has been modified to allow
these manouvers. The more advanced aerobatics it was certified for are
still off limits which means that while we paid for a fully aerobatic
trainer we no longer can use it as such. The point I was trying (and
failing) to make was that, at the moment, the Acro wouldn't provide
them any more functionality than a K13 in this area. Oddly enough, in
speaking up for the Acro you made this point much clearer thans I did.
As for spinning, good luck. the Acro's very docile in the stall but
difficult to get a good spin out of.

Let go of your inhibitions and move with the times
or else you may stay nowhere for ever!.

Actually I own a glass single seater and I feel the best two seater
I've ever flown is the Duo Discus so I'm hardly mired in the past. I
just don't like the Acro that much and don't see how this deal would
be of any benefit to this club.

Don't even think of selling the K13. For a site such as Syerston a K13 is
probably the best buy regardless of price.

The basic training fleet at Lasham is entirely K13s, they have no intention
of changing. The same is true at Nympsfield, when they broke a K13 two or
three years ago they bought another one.

I am sure that Tim Mara is correct.

If you have some money, look for a good K8 or K6cr. Don't be seduced by a
white finish and a T tail. If you want to know why e-mail me.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.


"Scott Macleman" wrote in message
...

I am a member of the council for my University gliding club - fairly new
compared to most of the people in this forum, but hey I enjoy it.

We currently own a K13 aircraft with a (fairly) serviceable trailer.

we have been offered an Acro with no trailer, and in order to buy it we
will need to sell our K13.

I was wondering whether it would be worth it - because the deal we have
been offered for the acro is not massively great and there are several
drawbacks.

mainly -

asking for a grant from the university.
selling the k13
not having a trailer with it.

Just wondering what some of the more experienced people think.

Thanks.

Scott,In future it wuld be nice if you checked stuff out
with the rest of the committee before making statements
in public. I know you are only speaking for yourself,
but you seem to have forgetten that as you are on the
committe of NUGC, what you say can be easily interpreted
as being the position of the committee as a whole.As it is you've caused a lot of embarrassment and caused
me to acrifice several hours of coursework writing
time to sort out the bloody mess you've made.Perhaps in future you could make it clear that you
are speaking on behalf of yourself, rather than implying
that you are speaking for all of us?And why on earth you expect anyone on here tod know anything about getting a grant from our student
union (NOT the university!!) is beyond me.Just to set the record straight, the coments below
are not the comments of NUGC, just of an individual.RobertPres. NUGCAt 15:54 26 April 2004, Scott MacLeman wrote:I am a member of the council for my University gliding
club - fairly new compared to most of the people in this forum, but hey
i enjoy it.We currently own a K13 aircraft with a (fairly) serviceable
trailer.we have been offered an Acro with no trailer, and in
order to buy it we will need to sell our K13.I was wondering whether it would be worth it - because
the deal we have been offered for the acro is not massivly great. and
there are several drawbacks.mainly - asking for a grant from the university. selling the k13 not having a trailer with it.Just wondering what some of the more experienced people
think.Thanks,

"Robert Richards" wrote in message
...
Scott,In future it wuld be nice if you checked stuff out
with the rest of the committee before making statements
in public. I know you are only speaking for yourself,
but you seem to have forgetten that as you are on the
committe of NUGC, what you say can be easily interpreted
as being the position of the committee as a whole.As it is you've caused a lot
of embarrassment and caused
me to acrifice several hours of coursework writing
time to sort out the bloody mess you've made.Perhaps in future you could make
it clear that you
are speaking on behalf of yourself, rather than implying
that you are speaking for all of us?And why on earth you expect anyone on here
tod know anything about getting a grant from our student
union (NOT the university!!) is beyond me.Just to set the record straight, the
coments below
are not the comments of NUGC, just of an individual.

Well Robert; I don't know about your relative flying skills or club
management skills, but Scott certainly has the edge on coherency.

Vaughn