LS-4

We're getting totally buried in the old thread...

So, as a newbie I have a few questions...

There seems to be almost consensus (!!) that the LS4 is a great ship. Good
performance. Very kind behaviour for low time pilots. Is someone actually
producing new LS-4s? Where and what is the price? Is the price really just a
little less than a LS-8? How dependent are the costs on the Euro?

Why is it that the 4, and to some degree the 3a get rave reviews but I've
hardly heard anything about a LS-6, 8, etc. Are they not as "good" or are
they just a lot more expensive, since they are newer?

And for the really knowledgeable... assuming new 4s are being produced, what
other new ship compares most closely in terms of performance and
behaviour... and at what price?

I'll sit back and learn from the responses...

Wad

Waduino wrote:

Why is it that the 4, and to some degree the 3a get rave reviews but
I've
hardly heard anything about a LS-6, 8, etc. Are they not as "good" or
are
they just a lot more expensive, since they are newer?


You answered your own question. The 8 is the most popular standard
class ship in the world right now at the competition level. The 6 is
also well loved by its pilots though there aren't as many around. Of
course these ships are more expensive and aren't in the 1st glider
market like the 3 and 4 are.

There is no denying the LS4 was/is an excellent sailplane....in fact, well
thought of at it's introduction as the 'best" standard class design of the
time. The LS4 as a used glider is still very popular as a club or entry
level high performance ship among first time glass buyers since it offers
good performance, simplicity being an "unflapped" 15 meter ship, easy to fly
without some of the 'quirkiness' of some of the preceding standard class
gliders. The LS4 has been around long enough that prices reflect it's age as
a used glider yet still giving near current standard class performance.
There was little doubt that the new owners of the LS4 design rights had
(have) some consideration to trying to offer this to the public as a new
"world class design", somewhat in line with "Club Class" in the place of the
PW5 that has been controversial since it's introduction. The LS4 is still
even new cheaper than the LS8, D2 or 28 as it should be, being a less than
current "state of the art" and might be a good choice as opposed to buying a
20 year old glider that will undoubtedly soon require 15K-20K in refinishing
and then updates to equipment.
I would also like to add that as well as the LS4 the HpH Glasflugel 304C is
still being offered and new 304C's are being sold and delivered even with
the current EU/$ rates. The 304 can certainly be an outstanding choice at an
even slightly lower price than the LS4 with newer airfoil design, more
"creature" comforts, equal if not (IMHO) better handling and better
performance and unquestioned quality.
before becoming too vulcanized on the LS4 as the only "option" I think you
would be well served to look at the website pages from HpH at
http://www.hph.cz/ and also my pages
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/304CZ202.htm and read owner comments and
feedback. I hope you will..
Best Regards
Tim
www.wingsandwheels.com


"Waduino" wrote in message
.. .
We're getting totally buried in the old thread...

So, as a newbie I have a few questions...

There seems to be almost consensus (!!) that the LS4 is a great ship. Good
performance. Very kind behaviour for low time pilots. Is someone actually
producing new LS-4s? Where and what is the price? Is the price really just
a little less than a LS-8? How dependent are the costs on the Euro?

Why is it that the 4, and to some degree the 3a get rave reviews but I've
hardly heard anything about a LS-6, 8, etc. Are they not as "good" or are
they just a lot more expensive, since they are newer?

And for the really knowledgeable... assuming new 4s are being produced,
what other new ship compares most closely in terms of performance and
behaviour... and at what price?

I'll sit back and learn from the responses...

Wad

I believe a third glider in about the same price range when purchased
new is the DG-303.

Tim Mara wrote:
There is no denying the LS4 was/is an excellent sailplane....in fact, well
thought of at it's introduction as the 'best" standard class design of the
time. The LS4 as a used glider is still very popular as a club or entry
level high performance ship among first time glass buyers since it offers
good performance, simplicity being an "unflapped" 15 meter ship, easy to fly
without some of the 'quirkiness' of some of the preceding standard class
gliders. The LS4 has been around long enough that prices reflect it's age as
a used glider yet still giving near current standard class performance.
There was little doubt that the new owners of the LS4 design rights had
(have) some consideration to trying to offer this to the public as a new
"world class design", somewhat in line with "Club Class" in the place of the
PW5 that has been controversial since it's introduction. The LS4 is still
even new cheaper than the LS8, D2 or 28 as it should be, being a less than
current "state of the art" and might be a good choice as opposed to buying a
20 year old glider that will undoubtedly soon require 15K-20K in refinishing
and then updates to equipment.
I would also like to add that as well as the LS4 the HpH Glasflugel 304C is
still being offered and new 304C's are being sold and delivered even with
the current EU/$ rates. The 304 can certainly be an outstanding choice at an
even slightly lower price than the LS4 with newer airfoil design, more
"creature" comforts, equal if not (IMHO) better handling and better
performance and unquestioned quality.
before becoming too vulcanized on the LS4 as the only "option" I think you
would be well served to look at the website pages from HpH at
http://www.hph.cz/ and also my pages
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/304CZ202.htm and read owner comments and
feedback. I hope you will..
Best Regards
Tim
www.wingsandwheels.com

wrote in message roups.com...
Waduino wrote:

Why is it that the 4, and to some degree the 3a get rave reviews but
I've
hardly heard anything about a LS-6, 8, etc. Are they not as "good" or
are
they just a lot more expensive, since they are newer?

Some comments after 3 seasons XC/racing in an LS4-b and 4 seasons in
an LS6-b:

The 4 is just simply the nicest glider I have ever flown - big,
comfortable cockpit, really easy to use gear handle, wonderful
ailerons, excellent performance (close to 40/1, decent high speed, can
carry enough water when needed). Also well built and easy to
rig/derig, although wings are a bit heavy by carbon standards...

The LS6 is almost as nice to fly, much better performance especially
at high speed, easier to rig (lighter wings), but has a MUCH smaller
cockpit. Compared to the 4 it rolls a bit slower and the flaperons
are a bit heavier. But dry (with the CG back where it belongs) it
will climb with anything, and wet or dry I have yet to be outrun at
high speed by any 15 meter ship (except for one especially good
ASW-27). My 6 seems to have a high drag polar knee at about 80 knots
wet, so I just avoid that speed range. The flaperons allow much lower
landing speeds when fully down. A busier cockpit, more things to
screw up, slightly worse visibility forwards and down.

For a first glider or non-competitive (except sports class) XC ship, a
4 would be hard to beat.

For more serious XC/racing, a 6 is still a good choice, but good luck
finding one - they don't seem to change hands much. Just be sure you
fit and don't mind the "Formula 1 racecar" seating arrangement. I'm a
pretty big guy and
don't mind it at all - I fit, there just isn't any extra room (folding
a Sectional chart infligh is impossible, for example, but a lady
friend of mine who flies my glider on occasions has lots of room and
loves it.

Kirk
66

I bought Kirk's LS-4 from him and I'm the "lady friend" who flies his 6 and
everything he says is true. The LS-6 is an awesome ship and the handling of
Rolladen-Schneider aircraft is superb.

I asked Kirk to please leave his LS-6 to me in his will but he said that
he'd prefer to lead a long and happy life.

Barb

And in the mean time we forget to answer the question: The difference
between a ls-4 and a ls-4b. What I know for sure is the ls-4b has
automatic hoockup of the ailerons. There is also a difference in water
ballast and the possibility of a tail tank, maybe there are also
differences in Vne. I'am not sure

just take a look at the following thread:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=n...m%26 rnum%3D1

or search for: Difference ls4 ls4b

that will give you the following answer:

My club is owning both, so I can speek from own experience. Beside
the
aforementionned differences:

- canopy hinge is different, the LS4 has a quadrilateral linkage like
the
LS1-f, the b model has a conventinonnal single pivot hinge much
stronger
in wind;

- gear lever is different, the LS4 has a long lever lying in
horizontal back
position when retracted, nearly at 45 degrees forward when extended.
In this
position it is quite impossible to open the airbrakes, which may be
considered
as a gear warning feature. On the b model the lever is shorter,
moves from
horizontal back to horizontal forward when retracting (180 deg), and
has no
interference with the airbrakes.

- on the LS4 the seatback is adjustable in flight, not in the b
model.

- although the wheel brake is actuated on both models by pressing
both rudder
pedals, on one of them you push only on the bottom of the pedals, on
the other
on the whole thing, don't remember which way pertain to which model.

- Vb and VNE are higher on LS4-b.

- when flying the b model I am able to circle at lower speed than on
the others,
but this may be due only to instrument error.


Diederik

do a search on: difference ls4 ls4b and you wil find some answers.

Here are the one I found:
RFR wrote:

Automatic control hook-up
Instrument panel raises with the canopy

All I can think of now.

Regards,
Rod

My club is owning both, so I can speek from own experience. Beside the
aforementionned differences:

- canopy hinge is different, the LS4 has a quadrilateral linkage like the
LS1-f, the b model has a conventinonnal single pivot hinge much stronger
in wind;

- gear lever is different, the LS4 has a long lever lying in horizontal back
position when retracted, nearly at 45 degrees forward when extended. In this
position it is quite impossible to open the airbrakes, which may be considered
as a gear warning feature. On the b model the lever is shorter, moves from
horizontal back to horizontal forward when retracting (180 deg), and has no
interference with the airbrakes.

- on the LS4 the seatback is adjustable in flight, not in the b model.

- although the wheel brake is actuated on both models by pressing both rudder
pedals, on one of them you push only on the bottom of the pedals, on the other
on the whole thing, don't remember which way pertain to which model.

- Vb and VNE are higher on LS4-b.

- when flying the b model I am able to circle at lower speed than on the others,
but this may be due only to instrument error.

Regards

Diederik

"Waduino" wrote in message ...
We're getting totally buried in the old thread...

So, as a newbie I have a few questions...

There seems to be almost consensus (!!) that the LS4 is a great ship. Good
performance. Very kind behaviour for low time pilots. Is someone actually
producing new LS-4s? Where and what is the price? Is the price really just a
little less than a LS-8? How dependent are the costs on the Euro?

Why is it that the 4, and to some degree the 3a get rave reviews but I've
hardly heard anything about a LS-6, 8, etc. Are they not as "good" or are
they just a lot more expensive, since they are newer?

And for the really knowledgeable... assuming new 4s are being produced, what
other new ship compares most closely in terms of performance and
behaviour... and at what price?

I'll sit back and learn from the responses...

Wad