Purchase Questions

I'm looking at buying into a partnership. The plane is a Piper Lance (6
place, complex single engine).

From you Piper drivers, particularly those who have Lance experience,
is there anything I need to know about? I asked an IA about 6 place
aircraft and he told me that C210s I was looking at tend to have gear
problems. What are the common Lance problems?

Being a PA28-180 driver, what should I expect in moving to a mid-70s
Lance?

Note that I do have C182 (straight and retract) time after flying C15x
and C172 before the purchase of the Cherokee.

Regards,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

Steve.T wrote:
I'm looking at buying into a partnership. The plane is a Piper Lance (6
place, complex single engine).
From you Piper drivers, particularly those who have Lance experience,
is there anything I need to know about? I asked an IA about 6 place
aircraft and he told me that C210s I was looking at tend to have gear
problems. What are the common Lance problems?

Do you want to know about flying and/or maintenance?

Being a PA28-180 driver, what should I expect in moving to a mid-70s
Lance?

Is it a T-tail or a straight-tail?

Always calculate a takeoff AND a landing CG.

check with the partnership about insurance with any 6 place aircraft before
you join the partnership and make that part of your decision making process.

Many insurance underwriters have drastically increased the insurance premium
and the pilot qualification requirements for 6 place aircraft.

Do a google search on this topic.. it was all over the usenet a couple of
months ago.

BT

"Steve.T" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm looking at buying into a partnership. The plane is a Piper Lance (6
place, complex single engine).

From you Piper drivers, particularly those who have Lance experience,
is there anything I need to know about? I asked an IA about 6 place
aircraft and he told me that C210s I was looking at tend to have gear
problems. What are the common Lance problems?

Being a PA28-180 driver, what should I expect in moving to a mid-70s
Lance?

Note that I do have C182 (straight and retract) time after flying C15x
and C172 before the purchase of the Cherokee.

Regards,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

You need to know what insurance will be for you. Rates vary A LOT
depending on time. Also, you'll want to get a prepurchase inspection.
Don't forget to include items other than the aircraft in your evalution
such as partnership owned handheld equipment, bank account balances etc.

I've read the insurance posts. Good points. I'm trying to get our agent
to give me some idea as to what I'm looking at. They do tell me that my
having some complex/hiperf time is good, and that my instrument rating
is getting me a break on rates.

At this point it is expected that I will have to have at least 15 hours
(w/ CFI) in type and possibly 25 before passengers (that is, solo or
CFI to a total of 25 hours). So I figure this is a good time to do all
the commercial prep and check ride.

The pre-purchase inspection is one that I hadn't really thought about,
but it makes *VERY* good sense considering the disaster that I had when
I bought our PA28.

And you have another good point, inventory of what the partnership owns
(hand helds, oil, etc.).

Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

I had a 79 Turbo Lance as a first airplane. A 79 is a T-tail. Not
surprisingly, it flys like a big PA28 since that is what it is. Control
forces are heavy in all three axis but you get used to this and most pilots
prefer this type of handling in instrument conditions. Nothing about the
maitenance is particularly unusual and there are no real "weak points". You
need to set the pitch and rudder trim properly before takeoff, but that is
about the only change from flying a PA28. The cg with two large people in
the front seats and full fuel is likely to be forward of the limit and will
require a higher approach speed in this configuration. The airplane is very
easy to land softly with someone in the rear most seat. The turbo models
tended to overheat at higher altitudes and having a TurboPlus intercooler
was a big advantage. Keep in mind that there is a lot more "stuff" on a
Lance (retractable gear, probably autopilot, probably an HSI ect) and it all
wears out, so the cost is going to be a lot more than a PA28. I had mine a
year and flew it coast to coast twice and to Mexico once puting about 350hrs
on it. Lances, particularly the turbo ones offer a lot of capability for
the money.

Mike
MU-2


"Steve.T" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm looking at buying into a partnership. The plane is a Piper Lance (6
place, complex single engine).

From you Piper drivers, particularly those who have Lance experience,
is there anything I need to know about? I asked an IA about 6 place
aircraft and he told me that C210s I was looking at tend to have gear
problems. What are the common Lance problems?

Being a PA28-180 driver, what should I expect in moving to a mid-70s
Lance?

Note that I do have C182 (straight and retract) time after flying C15x
and C172 before the purchase of the Cherokee.

Regards,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

Mike:

Thanks for your reply.

I understand what you are saying. I flew C15x until I got my PP. Then
transitioned to the C172 and it just felt like a heavier C152. When I
started complex training in a C182, now there we are talking about a
heavier airplane. Glad the elevators are balanced so that when you are
at 60Knotts you don't need to have been doing curls with 60# bars!

The Lance I'm starting to consider is not a Turbo. And my PA28 also has
rudder trim (which I get to change on rare occasions). And if I
remember correctly, this one is not a "T" tail. And right you are about
heavy controls for IFR -- I hate these simulators with the light
controls -- I apply the amount of pressure I use in my PA28 (or a
rented C172) and I get 2-8x the reaction.

I am also used to having to carry ballast to fix the CG issues. When my
wife and I are in the plane, I typically stick enough stuff in the
baggage compartment to give me 50# back there. Our PA28 flies and lands
much better that way.

The point about more stuff -- that is why I am wanting to move up. I
want an autopilot, anti-ice, complex a/c and I need to carry 4 adults
with BAGGAGE not shaving kits. This way I can work on my commercial
with my "own" a/c, get both hi-perf and complex signoffs and get my
CFI/I (well, that is the plan). AND I can do the trips that I want in
the weather we have here in Ohio.

But I wanted to ask this goup about issues that I wouldn't otherwise
know about. The C210s do have gear problems. The 337s now have an AD
about the rear engine (you must start it first - because most don't and
then sometimes forget to start it before they pull out on a runway -- I
do know a few 337 owner/pilots).

Later,
Steve.T

"Steve.T" wrote in message
ups.com...

The point about more stuff -- that is why I am wanting to move up. I
want an autopilot, anti-ice, complex a/c and I need to carry 4 adults
with BAGGAGE not shaving kits. This way I can work on my commercial
with my "own" a/c, get both hi-perf and complex signoffs and get my
CFI/I (well, that is the plan). AND I can do the trips that I want in
the weather we have here in Ohio.

But I wanted to ask this goup about issues that I wouldn't otherwise
know about. The C210s do have gear problems. The 337s now have an AD
about the rear engine (you must start it first - because most don't and
then sometimes forget to start it before they pull out on a runway -- I
do know a few 337 owner/pilots).

Later,
Steve.T


I don't think any PA32s are certified for known ice.

Mike
MU-2

I didn't say it was. Having anti-ice does not mean you are certified
for known icing. But it sure beats being naked and picking up ice and
having nothing you can do about it.

Just having a weeping wing would help with rime problems while climbing
out.

Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

AFAIK the only anti ice equipment availible for a Lance is a heated prop and
heated pitot.

Mike
MU-2


"Steve.T" wrote in message
oups.com...
I didn't say it was. Having anti-ice does not mean you are certified
for known icing. But it sure beats being naked and picking up ice and
having nothing you can do about it.

Just having a weeping wing would help with rime problems while climbing
out.

Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument