12v power port for older Cessna

Hey all. I'd like to add a 12v power port to hook up my cell charger/PDA/GPS
/ hairdryer and marguerita blender. Any advice on how to get this done, or
is it a shop item? The plane is a 1982 C152.

Thanks in advance,
Marty from Drizzling Palm Beach

Marty from Florida wrote:

Hey all. I'd like to add a 12v power port to hook up my cell charger/PDA/GPS
/ hairdryer and marguerita blender. Any advice on how to get this done, or
is it a shop item? The plane is a 1982 C152.

http://www.powerstream.com/dc1.htm

Had to put one like this in our C152 due to the 28v buss system...

You could undo the connection to the current power outlet, wire that to
the voltage converter and then wire its output to the power outlet.
Total up the amps you'll need, a 200 watt unit should be sufficient...

http://www.powerstream.com/dc1-ap-notes.htm

Don't you already have a cigar lighter in the panel?

If not, it's something you need an A&P to sign off (note I didn't say
do - you could do the work yourself). Find the right A&P - one who
understands what a minor alteration is.

Michael

Michael wrote:
: Don't you already have a cigar lighter in the panel?

: If not, it's something you need an A&P to sign off (note I didn't say
: do - you could do the work yourself). Find the right A&P - one who
: understands what a minor alteration is.

Not that I disagree with the fact that this *is* a "minor alteration," but
does the FAA consider that to be true? Isn't something that permanently ties into
the electrical system supposed to require a field approval?

-Cory

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

Not that I disagree with the fact that this *is* a "minor
alteration," but
does the FAA consider that to be true?

Which FAA? Every FSDO is a fiefdom unto itself.

Isn't something that permanently ties into
the electrical system supposed to require a field approval?

Would that include a T&B? How about a voltmeter? A radio? Post
lights?

In some FSDO's, you're right - it's considered major. In some FSDO's
it's not. The real issue is that unless you bring it to the attention
of the FSDO, how are they going to know? You simply need to get it
past your IA at annual time.

Some IA's will ignore it even without paperwork. Most will accept an
A&P's signature and not question his determination that it was minor.
And a few assholes will actually ground your plane and make you either
pay to have it removed or get the FAA involved. A 337 doesn't save you
from this - remember how Honeck had to remove his strobes, installed
under a 337, because the IA decided they weren't legal and got the FAA
involved?

That's why it's important to choose your shop carefully.

Michael

: Which FAA? Every FSDO is a fiefdom unto itself.
Sadly, yes... that's pretty much what I meant. It's dependent on your
particular FSDO.

: Would that include a T&B? How about a voltmeter? A radio? Post
: lights?
Yes, I should say so. The only reason not to would be replacing a part with
an equivalent part. If your T&B dies, you can legally replace it with an equivalent
part without a field approval. A more electrically-oriented example would be if you
wanted to add an ammeter to your voltmeter-equipped plane vs. adding a voltmeter to
your ammeter-equipped plane. In the former, you need to sever the charging wire and
put in either the meter or a shunt for the meter. In the latter you only need a
negligible-current wire to run to a voltmeter. I would argue that the latter is a
minor alteration, but the former is much more significant. I'm sure the regs don't
have any way to distinguish between issues that subtle.

: In some FSDO's, you're right - it's considered major. In some FSDO's
: it's not. The real issue is that unless you bring it to the attention
: of the FSDO, how are they going to know? You simply need to get it
: past your IA at annual time.

: Some IA's will ignore it even without paperwork. Most will accept an
: A&P's signature and not question his determination that it was minor.
: And a few assholes will actually ground your plane and make you either
: pay to have it removed or get the FAA involved. A 337 doesn't save you
: from this - remember how Honeck had to remove his strobes, installed
: under a 337, because the IA decided they weren't legal and got the FAA
: involved?

True. Just shows how broken the whole system is. My question is what in the
*HELL* is a "signoff" by a certified IA good for if the next IA and everyone
thereafter is responsible for it too? It only serves to hold last guy accountable for
everything. What's the purpose of a certification for an IA if the next IA can't
trust the previous' work?

I don't recall Jay getting phucked having to remove strobes. That sounds like
it was an ugly FAA-ism.

: That's why it's important to choose your shop carefully.

Again, I call bull**** on this. Unfortunately, it's true.

-Cory

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

wrote:
A more electrically-oriented example would be if you
wanted to add an ammeter to your voltmeter-equipped plane vs. adding
a voltmeter to
your ammeter-equipped plane. In the former, you need to sever the
charging wire and
put in either the meter or a shunt for the meter. In the latter you
only need a
negligible-current wire to run to a voltmeter. I would argue that
the latter is a
minor alteration, but the former is much more significant. I'm sure
the regs don't
have any way to distinguish between issues that subtle.

No, the regs don't. People do. There is such a thing as judgment. An
A&P is supposed to be able to make a judgment call with respect to what
constitutes a major vs. minor alteration, within certain guidelines.
The guidelines give a fair amount of latitude. In many FSDO's, the
poliy is to make that latitude go away by dramatically restricting what
is allowed as a minor alteration.

Just shows how broken the whole system is.

Well, yes. That's why I don't think it's useful to discuss what the
rules actually are and what constitutes compliance - because it changes
from FSDO to FSDO, and from inspector to inspector, and if an inspector
wants to hang you he will find a way. The only useful things to
discuss are (a) what is actually reasonably safe and (b) what you can
get away with in terms of inspections.

In general, the only reason you need an annual is in the event of an
accident, and then only for insurance purposes. You might argue that
you need it to be 'legal' but that's a false argument. No plane is
ever legal. Any plane can be grounded. Therefore, you're really no
more legal with an annual than without. Unless the plane looks like
crap or has obviously non-aviation stuff installed, a ramp check will
not catch an out-of-annual aircraft - not that ramp checks are common.

I don't recall Jay getting phucked having to remove strobes. That
sounds like
it was an ugly FAA-ism.

No. It was a bad shop. The IA had the option of letting the 337
stand, and nobody would have questioned it. For decades, nobody had.
I believe those strobes are still in a shoebox.

Michael