Have you ever...

....refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)

I had it happen earlier this year, for the first time, ever, and it felt,
well, weird.

I think I did the right thing, but it's hard to say. That funny little
voice in my head just kept saying "stay on the ground..." -- so I did.

Never heard that voice before.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Get your CFI. Do BFRs for a while. You'll get used to it ... quickly.

Jim



"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:X%16e.33363$NW5.4119@attbi_s02...
...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)

I had it happen earlier this year, for the first time, ever, and it felt,
well, weird.

Jay Honeck wrote:
...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)

No but I would have if I know what I know now. At the time I
had solo'd and nothing else.

I was living in Germany at the time and a friend of a friend had
a pilots license who invited us to go flying near the Austrian
Alps and Salzburg. Some of the things he did that were stupid....


1. he fueled the plane himself, he never checked fuel for contaminatino
or water.

2. Didn't have a checklist but while lined up he found it. He didn't
use it much if at all.

3. His radio calls were attrocious.

4. I dont' think he ever concerned himself with Weight and balance
despite going to high altitudes with 3 males in a 172SP.

5. Landing in Rosenheim (IIRC), from the backseat it looked like
the treetops whizzed by maybe 30 feet below us so he was very low.

6. Going into Salzburg, he had no clue where we were despite having
a Garmin 430.

7. Landing in Salzburg which I'm guessing is a Class C airport,
he had full flaps in on downwind. I'm sure at least one plane had to
really extend the downwind for us.

8. He almost landed short of the numbers despite the
9000 foot runway.

9. He landed short and we then had to taxi a mile to the GA tie downs.

10. flying out of Salzburg, he had no idea on what the clearance meant
and didn't follow it.

11. Flying out of salzburg, Tower gave us a frequency change and he
couldn't remember it (ok, this happens to the best of us).

12. At night in the EU, you have to be on a VFR flight plan and get
the equivalent of VFR flight following. Approach (or whatever you
call it there) said, "Cessna D-xxxxx, ummm, if you are going to
Augsburg, umm, don't you want to turn 90 degrees to the left?"

13. He then proceeded to bust the MUC Class B.

14. The guy needed gased his passengers as he really needed to take
a shower more than once a week.

My friend has since flown with me in California and said I was a much
smoother, stable pilot. during the trip he said that they went up
again with 2 girls (so 4 total) up over the Alps at 13000+ feet
and somehow upon returning almost got into a midair when they were
approaching onto another airplane on final (I'm guessing). He said
they were damn scared at the time.

Looking back, I should have gotten out of the plane when he didn't check
the fuel. Live and learn and gladfully I'm still alive as this guy
is going to be a statistic some day.

Gerald Sylvester

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe?

Yes, I have declined.
Being a woman, it's hard to say if it was uneasiness about the man/woman
issue or about piloting skill, but something was definitely saying
"don't go", and he looked pretty shocked when I said, "No thanks, I
don't know how you fly!" It always amazes me how people just assume that
all pilots are *SO* desperate to be up in the air that they'll accept an
flight invite from ANYONE, regardless of how little they know about the
person, their piloting history, etc. Most self-respecting, reasonably
intelligent women won't get into a car with a man they just met and know
nothing about; why do men think asking a woman they just met to get into
an airplane with them is any different?

I have also declined a few invites from people I frequently fly and have
confidence with, when wind or other weather has been beyond what I feel
is safe.

Jay Honeck wrote:
...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)

Absolutely !! And the guy was a good friend too. After a rather heated
discussion he ended up taking remedial training.

We don't speak much anymore...but he's still alive and, more
importantly, so am I ! ;-)


Toño

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:X%16e.33363$NW5.4119@attbi_s02...
...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)

I had it happen earlier this year, for the first time, ever, and it felt,
well, weird.

I think I did the right thing, but it's hard to say. That funny little
voice in my head just kept saying "stay on the ground..." -- so I did.

Never heard that voice before.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I've never been invited up by a pilot I wouldn't fly with, but I have been
invited to ride along in airplanes I wouldn't fly in. Homebuilt helicopters
come to mind, as does an offer of a ride in a '47 Bonanza which was known to
have serious corrosion problems in the flight control skins as well as
wiring with crumbling insulation. I figured those things were the tips of
the iceberg with that Bonanza...

Jay,
It has happened to me a couple of times. I have not seen any of them in
a long time.
Having hours and confidence does help knowing I can take the controls if
necessary.
Michelle

Jay Honeck wrote:

...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)

I had it happen earlier this year, for the first time, ever, and it felt,
well, weird.

I think I did the right thing, but it's hard to say. That funny little
voice in my head just kept saying "stay on the ground..." -- so I did.

Never heard that voice before.

Jay Honeck wrote:
...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)

I had it happen earlier this year, for the first time, ever, and it felt,
well, weird.

I think I did the right thing, but it's hard to say. That funny little
voice in my head just kept saying "stay on the ground..." -- so I did.

Never heard that voice before.

It's better to be on the ground looking up and wishing that you were
flying than to be in the air wishing you were on the ground.

- J.O.-

...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe?
(With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)

No but I would have if I know what I know now. At the time I
had solo'd and nothing else.

Ha! I hadn't even *thought* of that, but now that you mention it...

One of Mary's uncles took us flying in a rental Cessna back in the
early 80s. None of us were aware that he had his pilot's license (a
point that should have seemed odd to me at the time...), but we were
thrilled to go flying with him.

Well, more accurately, *I* was thrilled to go flying. Mary, at the
time, was ambivalent toward flying.

We took off and had a very enjoyable flight over central Wisconsin.
The flight orginated from a small, uncontrolled airport, so there was
no traffic or tower to deal with -- but in retrospect I don't remember
him using the radio at all. And, with 20/20 hindsight, his approach
speeds were very fast, and he floated forever on landing. We knew
nothing (this was actually my first flight in a small plane), but I was
ecstatic to be airborne.

Only much later, when I began flight training, did I casually do some
checking on him, just to see what his ratings were. Imagine my
surprise when I discovered he wasn't listed as a pilot at all!

This guy was always the "wild uncle" -- motorcycling across Europe,
traveling the world with a back pack and a smile, never having a pot to
pee in but living extravagantly -- and I suppose he took a few flight
lessons and decided that he already knew what he needed to know...

I shudder to think about it now...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

My experience was actually a combination of factors.

- The aircraft was a high-performance home-built (not built by the
current owner)
- The pilot had recently purchased the aircraft
- The pilot has an aggressive, somewhat unpredictable personality
- I'd flown with this pilot before, and was taken aback at the way they
skated on radio and standard pattern procedures.
- The weather was predicted to be marginal along the route of flight

For the first time, ever, I felt better staying on the ground.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"