Too tall for a Pitts?

(I tried posting this last night via a different NNTP server, with
photos, but I never saw the posting show up anywhere, so I'll post
again)

I am looking at purchasing a homebuilt S1D but am concerned that I
might be too tall. Headroom is probably OK, but I'm not sure about
legroom.

The second owner was 6'0", like me. He had the canopy raised so he
could fit. My problem appears to be in the leg department though. I
have an inch of headroom while sitting on the owner's Security
parachute (which is about an inch thick where I sit on it, and also
about an inch thick in back), but my legs feel cramped and that has me
concerned.

I feel like my legs would be more comfortable if they were more
extended. My knees feel a bit closer to me than I _think_ will be best
for precisely controling the rudder, and I don't want the rudder pedals
to not have full precise control in a Pitts!). I'm told that Pitt's
rudder pedals may be adjustable, but the only adjustment I could see
was in a metal plate where the rudder cable attached to the rudder.
That plate had several holes, but was already using the outermost
holes, and thus no holes exist that would allow the rudder pedals to be
adjusted forward anymore, at least not that I can see.

My knees are right under the front face of the instrument panel. They
have about an inch of clearance, which seems OK. The sides of my legs
are more cramped. The right leg just barely fits in between the fuel
tank and an old Terra 720 radio. I can move/replace the radio and
should be fine. My left leg WOULD be next to the fuel tank, were it
not for a fuel line going from the bottom of the tank to the wobble
pump. That fuel line must be rerouted for me to fly, as it is hitting
my left shinbone as it is installed currently.

So, once the fuel line is rerouted, and the radio moved, I think the
only real issue is that I might still feel like my feet are just too
close to me to be able to control the rudder precisely. On the other
hand, maybe I'm just worrying too much...

Does anyone have any comments on their experiences as a tall pilot
fitting into a Pitts? Or of feeling cramped or uncomfortable? I'd be
very interested on any input from anyone that ever did feel like their
rudder control was hampered by their long legs.

I have some photos (of the cockpit and the fit of my legs) that I was
going to attach to this posting, but Google doesn't seem to have an
interface for attaching photos. I can try to attach photos again via
Outlook Express tonight, from home, and maybe that will work.

Thanks,

-- Glenn Sisson

Hi Glenn;

I'm not all that tall....bout 5'8", so I never had any trouble flying the
Pitts, but one thing you might want to consider is that 1 inch head
clearance for the canopy. You might need to have that raised. Anything
inverted carrying a bit of negative g (not to mention some MORE negative g
:-))), and your glutes are going to expand no matter how tight you have the
harness and 1 inch might not be enough. I even used a negative g strap and
on occasion I'd get some "seat release" :-)))
Just a thought.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)
"Glenn" wrote in message
oups.com...
(I tried posting this last night via a different NNTP server, with
photos, but I never saw the posting show up anywhere, so I'll post
again)

I am looking at purchasing a homebuilt S1D but am concerned that I
might be too tall. Headroom is probably OK, but I'm not sure about
legroom.

The second owner was 6'0", like me. He had the canopy raised so he
could fit. My problem appears to be in the leg department though. I
have an inch of headroom while sitting on the owner's Security
parachute (which is about an inch thick where I sit on it, and also
about an inch thick in back), but my legs feel cramped and that has me
concerned.

I feel like my legs would be more comfortable if they were more
extended. My knees feel a bit closer to me than I _think_ will be best
for precisely controling the rudder, and I don't want the rudder pedals
to not have full precise control in a Pitts!). I'm told that Pitt's
rudder pedals may be adjustable, but the only adjustment I could see
was in a metal plate where the rudder cable attached to the rudder.
That plate had several holes, but was already using the outermost
holes, and thus no holes exist that would allow the rudder pedals to be
adjusted forward anymore, at least not that I can see.

My knees are right under the front face of the instrument panel. They
have about an inch of clearance, which seems OK. The sides of my legs
are more cramped. The right leg just barely fits in between the fuel
tank and an old Terra 720 radio. I can move/replace the radio and
should be fine. My left leg WOULD be next to the fuel tank, were it
not for a fuel line going from the bottom of the tank to the wobble
pump. That fuel line must be rerouted for me to fly, as it is hitting
my left shinbone as it is installed currently.

So, once the fuel line is rerouted, and the radio moved, I think the
only real issue is that I might still feel like my feet are just too
close to me to be able to control the rudder precisely. On the other
hand, maybe I'm just worrying too much...

Does anyone have any comments on their experiences as a tall pilot
fitting into a Pitts? Or of feeling cramped or uncomfortable? I'd be
very interested on any input from anyone that ever did feel like their
rudder control was hampered by their long legs.

I have some photos (of the cockpit and the fit of my legs) that I was
going to attach to this posting, but Google doesn't seem to have an
interface for attaching photos. I can try to attach photos again via
Outlook Express tonight, from home, and maybe that will work.

Thanks,

-- Glenn Sisson

At 6'2" I find the Pitts S-1 a tight fit too, that's why I fly an
Eagle... ;-)

If you have full control movement, you're more than halfway there.
That's the most important thing, especially full back stick to the corners.

Some mods I've seen Pitts pilots do to get more room include:

Switching to a seat pack chute and putting in a pan seat bottom. You
don't have to buy a whole new chute for that, contact the manufacturer
and see if they'll put your current chute in a seat pack container. I
know Para-Phernalia will do that.

There are a number of different canopy sizes. I've seen some Pitts'
with a pretty large bubble canopy to accommodate taller pilots. 1 inch
is a pretty narrow margin, especially if you're going to don a helmet.

Also, I've seen seat back pans or a metal seatback that had been bowed
back to allow a couple extra inches of legroom.

Lastly, and most extreme, one Pitts I noticed had the rudder pedals
moved forward and cutouts in the firewall to allow full travel. They had
welded square boxes over the holes to keep the firewall 'integrity'.

That should give you some ideas.

-j-

Glenn wrote:
(I tried posting this last night via a different NNTP server, with
photos, but I never saw the posting show up anywhere, so I'll post
again)

I am looking at purchasing a homebuilt S1D but am concerned that I
might be too tall. Headroom is probably OK, but I'm not sure about
legroom.

The second owner was 6'0", like me. He had the canopy raised so he
could fit. My problem appears to be in the leg department though. I
have an inch of headroom while sitting on the owner's Security
parachute (which is about an inch thick where I sit on it, and also
about an inch thick in back), but my legs feel cramped and that has me
concerned.

I feel like my legs would be more comfortable if they were more
extended. My knees feel a bit closer to me than I _think_ will be best
for precisely controling the rudder, and I don't want the rudder pedals
to not have full precise control in a Pitts!). I'm told that Pitt's
rudder pedals may be adjustable, but the only adjustment I could see
was in a metal plate where the rudder cable attached to the rudder.
That plate had several holes, but was already using the outermost
holes, and thus no holes exist that would allow the rudder pedals to be
adjusted forward anymore, at least not that I can see.

My knees are right under the front face of the instrument panel. They
have about an inch of clearance, which seems OK. The sides of my legs
are more cramped. The right leg just barely fits in between the fuel
tank and an old Terra 720 radio. I can move/replace the radio and
should be fine. My left leg WOULD be next to the fuel tank, were it
not for a fuel line going from the bottom of the tank to the wobble
pump. That fuel line must be rerouted for me to fly, as it is hitting
my left shinbone as it is installed currently.

So, once the fuel line is rerouted, and the radio moved, I think the
only real issue is that I might still feel like my feet are just too
close to me to be able to control the rudder precisely. On the other
hand, maybe I'm just worrying too much...

Does anyone have any comments on their experiences as a tall pilot
fitting into a Pitts? Or of feeling cramped or uncomfortable? I'd be
very interested on any input from anyone that ever did feel like their
rudder control was hampered by their long legs.

I have some photos (of the cockpit and the fit of my legs) that I was
going to attach to this posting, but Google doesn't seem to have an
interface for attaching photos. I can try to attach photos again via
Outlook Express tonight, from home, and maybe that will work.

Thanks,

-- Glenn Sisson

I'm 6'0 (35" inseam) and my S-1D is a great fit. It has a seat pan but the
previous owner put a board across the frame in order to increase eye height.
Works well with the National chairpack I am using. The S-1C had a 3"
shorter fuselage, I believe all in the cockpit. Could yours be a C fuselage
with D wings?

al.


"Glenn" wrote in message
oups.com...
(I tried posting this last night via a different NNTP server, with
photos, but I never saw the posting show up anywhere, so I'll post
again)

I am looking at purchasing a homebuilt S1D but am concerned that I
might be too tall. Headroom is probably OK, but I'm not sure about
legroom.

The second owner was 6'0", like me. He had the canopy raised so he
could fit. My problem appears to be in the leg department though. I
have an inch of headroom while sitting on the owner's Security
parachute (which is about an inch thick where I sit on it, and also
about an inch thick in back), but my legs feel cramped and that has me
concerned.

I feel like my legs would be more comfortable if they were more
extended. My knees feel a bit closer to me than I _think_ will be best
for precisely controling the rudder, and I don't want the rudder pedals
to not have full precise control in a Pitts!). I'm told that Pitt's
rudder pedals may be adjustable, but the only adjustment I could see
was in a metal plate where the rudder cable attached to the rudder.
That plate had several holes, but was already using the outermost
holes, and thus no holes exist that would allow the rudder pedals to be
adjusted forward anymore, at least not that I can see.

My knees are right under the front face of the instrument panel. They
have about an inch of clearance, which seems OK. The sides of my legs
are more cramped. The right leg just barely fits in between the fuel
tank and an old Terra 720 radio. I can move/replace the radio and
should be fine. My left leg WOULD be next to the fuel tank, were it
not for a fuel line going from the bottom of the tank to the wobble
pump. That fuel line must be rerouted for me to fly, as it is hitting
my left shinbone as it is installed currently.

So, once the fuel line is rerouted, and the radio moved, I think the
only real issue is that I might still feel like my feet are just too
close to me to be able to control the rudder precisely. On the other
hand, maybe I'm just worrying too much...

Does anyone have any comments on their experiences as a tall pilot
fitting into a Pitts? Or of feeling cramped or uncomfortable? I'd be
very interested on any input from anyone that ever did feel like their
rudder control was hampered by their long legs.

I have some photos (of the cockpit and the fit of my legs) that I was
going to attach to this posting, but Google doesn't seem to have an
interface for attaching photos. I can try to attach photos again via
Outlook Express tonight, from home, and maybe that will work.

Thanks,

-- Glenn Sisson

I'm also 6'0 with 35" inseam, and also looking hard at buying a Pitts.
After sitting trying on a few, I've decided I need the extended fuselage.
My big concern was the proximity of the dashboard to my knees and the
consequent time to get out of the plane in an emergency.

I don't know of any logic to which variants of the S1 have the extended
fuselage and which ones don't. I think in general that the S1Cs have the
short fuselage, the S1Ss are a mix, and the S1Ds have the longer fuselage.
But that is a guess.

I also found a Pitts "SPS-1" which is essentially an S1 with 15" longer
wings and 12" longer fuselage. It has full span ailerons on the bottom wing
and nothing on the top. Not sure if the airfoil is flat bottom or
symmetrical. I'm looking pretty hard at that one. Anyone have any idea of
the flying characteristics?

"Al MacDonald" wrote in message
news:r1a9e.42594$jR3.35558@edtnps84...
I'm 6'0 (35" inseam) and my S-1D is a great fit. It has a seat pan but
the previous owner put a board across the frame in order to increase eye
height. Works well with the National chairpack I am using. The S-1C had a
3" shorter fuselage, I believe all in the cockpit. Could yours be a C
fuselage with D wings?

al.


"Glenn" wrote in message
oups.com...
(I tried posting this last night via a different NNTP server, with
photos, but I never saw the posting show up anywhere, so I'll post
again)

I am looking at purchasing a homebuilt S1D but am concerned that I
might be too tall. Headroom is probably OK, but I'm not sure about
legroom.

The second owner was 6'0", like me. He had the canopy raised so he
could fit. My problem appears to be in the leg department though. I
have an inch of headroom while sitting on the owner's Security
parachute (which is about an inch thick where I sit on it, and also
about an inch thick in back), but my legs feel cramped and that has me
concerned.

I feel like my legs would be more comfortable if they were more
extended. My knees feel a bit closer to me than I _think_ will be best
for precisely controling the rudder, and I don't want the rudder pedals
to not have full precise control in a Pitts!). I'm told that Pitt's
rudder pedals may be adjustable, but the only adjustment I could see
was in a metal plate where the rudder cable attached to the rudder.
That plate had several holes, but was already using the outermost
holes, and thus no holes exist that would allow the rudder pedals to be
adjusted forward anymore, at least not that I can see.

My knees are right under the front face of the instrument panel. They
have about an inch of clearance, which seems OK. The sides of my legs
are more cramped. The right leg just barely fits in between the fuel
tank and an old Terra 720 radio. I can move/replace the radio and
should be fine. My left leg WOULD be next to the fuel tank, were it
not for a fuel line going from the bottom of the tank to the wobble
pump. That fuel line must be rerouted for me to fly, as it is hitting
my left shinbone as it is installed currently.

So, once the fuel line is rerouted, and the radio moved, I think the
only real issue is that I might still feel like my feet are just too
close to me to be able to control the rudder precisely. On the other
hand, maybe I'm just worrying too much...

Does anyone have any comments on their experiences as a tall pilot
fitting into a Pitts? Or of feeling cramped or uncomfortable? I'd be
very interested on any input from anyone that ever did feel like their
rudder control was hampered by their long legs.

I have some photos (of the cockpit and the fit of my legs) that I was
going to attach to this posting, but Google doesn't seem to have an
interface for attaching photos. I can try to attach photos again via
Outlook Express tonight, from home, and maybe that will work.

Thanks,

-- Glenn Sisson