Insurance - smooth limits

This is a follow-up to a discussion some time back about liability
coverage, specifically about using "smooth limits", which eliminates
the typical $100,000 cap per person. I've been buying my insurance
through AOPA, and they have told me that their carriers would not offer
smooth limits on aircraft the age of my 1969 model. I just received a
fax from AOPA Insurance that they have found a carrier that will
provide this coverage. The only catch is, it doubles my premium!

I'm curious how many of you owners do carry smooth limits.

Paul,
We switched from AOPA AIG to USAIG (through Wenk Aviation) last year
in order to get the $1M smooth paying something like 25% more and with
the condition that we both have to go through Wings training program
every year. When our insurance was up for renewal this year, I checked
with several agencies/agents (Travers, Bob Leuten's CardinalFlyers,
AOPA) and again learned that they would not offer smooth limit for
relatively low time pilots like us (we have just over 350 and 400hrs
with more than 100hrs in type). I believe the minimum requirement is
something like 750hrs. The age of the aircraft did not come into
question. We have a 1970 C177B. So we stayed with USAIG. You may want
to give Wenk Aviation a try. Their tel no is 847-433-8370

"Paul kgyy" wrote:
...The only catch is, it doubles my premium!

I'm curious how many of you owners do carry smooth limits.


I think it depends upon how often, if at all, you carry passengers who
would sue you for negligence in the event of an accident. If say
mostly solo, but occasionally friends or family, I don't see
additional cost as justified. For some older guys I know, if they
were to claim "loss of consortium," I believe they'd be lying. :-)

Fred F.

Fred,
Even if your family members and friends don't want to sue you, I don't
believe that $100K sublimit is enough to cover hospital cost for
serious accidents.

Here is an article on the subject written by Rick Durden, a practicing
aviation attorney and pilot

The Pilot's Lounge #85: Some Blunt Talk About Aviation Insurance (or,
What You Don't Know About Sublimits Can Hurt You)


http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189307-1.html

On 2005-05-04, wrote:
Fred,
Even if your family members and friends don't want to sue you, I don't
believe that $100K sublimit is enough to cover hospital cost for
serious accidents.

Not that it would matter, since there are even smaller (like $3000)
family medical sublimits.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

I don't usually fly indigent people myself. Most have medical coverage
themselves.
However, I think you are on to something. I also think it may be too
risky to fly in a single engine. Just double the price and get a twin.
But a light twin isn't really that safe, just double the price and get
a Barron.
But a Barron isn't that safe, just double the price and get a King Air.
But a King Air isn't that safe, just double the price and get a
Citation.
But a Citation isn't that safe, just double the price and get an old
707.
But a 707 isn't that safe, just double the price and get an old 737.\
But a old 737 isn't that safe, just double the price and get a newer
737.
But flying yourself isn't that safe, just double, double.. the price
and higher an off duty airline crew to fly for you.

The point is that you have to do a proper ROI. At some point in life,
you will have to take a risk. Where you place your risk and how much
depends on what you want to do. You could sit in your living room
curled up in a ball hoping no one ever sues you. Or you can just accept
it as a way of life, buy the insurance that is reasonable and live your
life as best you can. You may or may not have enough to cover someones
hospital bills but that comes after their personal health insurance.
Its just like a car accident, the insurance settlement is just used to
reimb your medical insurance company.

-Robert, CFI, MBA

Robert,
I agree. If one wants to avoid being sued, one should not even drive
a car or own a dog let alone flying, owing a plane and taking
passengers. We give rides to relatives, friends and their kids as
often as weather and opportunity permit even when we had only $100K
sublimit. Getting the smooth coverage at 25% more in insurance cost is
certainly worth it for us.

Hai Longworth

Robert M. Gary wrote:

I don't usually fly indigent people myself. Most have medical coverage
themselves.

This won't protect you. Their insurance may be inadequate (lots of
middle class people have company insurance with 20% copays and caps,
etc) plus their insurer can still go after you. Before I went with an
HMO that doesn't require claim forms, my medical insurance claim forms
used to ask if there was an accident involved, and I assume if you say
yes they may choose to get more information to go after the person who
caused it. Also, even if you don't have claim forms or don't check yes
on the box, medical insurance companies routinely hire auditing firms to
check their claims for ones that may be due to an accident so they can
follow up and see if they can ding someone else for it.

I know this because my wife goes to a chiropractor and a couple of times
they have sent her letters asking her if she was injured in an accident
and if so to contact them with the pertinent info about the other parties.

But that doesn't exclude them from receiving treatment, that just means
the HMO can go after you. The point was that not having enough
insurance does not mean they will be sitting on the street in front of
the hospital w/o medical care.
So, if the only issue is being sued, you have to make a personal
assessment of the situation. You can't just blindly say "more insurance
is better" until your bank account is empty from the premiums. You
can't assign *ALL* your risk in life to an insurance company. You just
need to decide how much of that risk you are willing to share yourself.

"xyzzy" wrote:
...
Before I went with an
HMO that doesn't require claim forms, my medical insurance claim
forms
used to ask if there was an accident involved, and I assume if you
say
yes they may choose to get more information to go after the person
who
caused it.

Does that happen? Medical care is expensive, but so is paying
attorneys to pay experts to investigate an accident and determine if
the pilot was negligent. They can't sue by themselves; they have to
convince the insured to sue, and turn over any award to the insurance
company.

Fred F.