Nano-3 will not charge

Hey all, my Nano-3 is up to date and worked fine a few weeks ago.

Trying to charge it for tomorrow, it continues to DISCHARGE when plugged in to factory wall charger, brand x wall charger, and through PC/USB, both with unit shut down and while up and running.

Started at over 20% battery but it only goes down. 2 LEDs.

I am going to let it crash and try charging from that state, any other udeas?

On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 6:21:35 PM UTC-4, Tony wrote:
Hey all, my Nano-3 is up to date and worked fine a few weeks ago.

Trying to charge it for tomorrow, it continues to DISCHARGE when plugged in to factory wall charger, brand x wall charger, and through PC/USB, both with unit shut down and while up and running.

Started at over 20% battery but it only goes down. 2 LEDs.

I am going to let it crash and try charging from that state, any other udeas?
So finally the discharge is reversing. I did not let it crash, decided that would be risky. Just kept unplugging/replugging and shutting down. Room temperature for three weeks and around 40% charge, apparently that falls under the cautions? Had this thing for about 7 years and new battery last year, looks like I have to treat it with suspicion and kid gloves from now on!?

On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 15:41:52 -0700, Tony wrote:

On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 6:21:35 PM UTC-4, Tony wrote:
Hey all, my Nano-3 is up to date and worked fine a few weeks ago.

Trying to charge it for tomorrow, it continues to DISCHARGE when
plugged in to factory wall charger, brand x wall charger, and through
PC/USB, both with unit shut down and while up and running.

Started at over 20% battery but it only goes down. 2 LEDs.

I am going to let it crash and try charging from that state, any other
udeas?
So finally the discharge is reversing. I did not let it crash, decided
that would be risky. Just kept unplugging/replugging and shutting down.
Room temperature for three weeks and around 40% charge, apparently that
falls under the cautions? Had this thing for about 7 years and new
battery last year, looks like I have to treat it with suspicion and kid
gloves from now on!?

What sort of batteries does it use? If its on AA or AAA cells, they're
probably NiMH, which are pretty much junk. Replace then with Sanyo EneLoop
and you'll see a big difference.

The other point, particularly a problem with NiMH chemistry, is that they
self-discharge quite rapidly - and this process is speeded up if the
device using them has any type of soft-touch switch rather than a
mechanical power switch. The former makes the device permanently 'on'
because soft-touch switches burn battery power while they are watching
for somebody to press the on switch.

As a result, when you aren't using the PNA/PDA/logger which has a soft-
touch power switch they are still using battery power.

Example: I have a fairly old EW Micro logger, which uses a set of four
NiMH AA cells to power it when it isn't connected to the glider's 12v
supply. It also has a soft-touch power switch. Consequently, if it isn't
recharged at least once a month during winter, when we aren't flying, the
NiMH cells will be destroyed, and must be replaced and the logger will
have also loose its configuration settings.

My Medion S.3747 PNA, which runs LK8000, has the same issue, a touch-
sensitive power switch, and also needs to be recharged each month over
winter, while by contrast the even older Binatone PNA that the Medion
replaced has a mechanical power switch and only needs charging every six
months or so.

I've never used a Nano, but I have a strong suspicion that it has a soft-
touch power switch and so will flatten its batteries relatively fast.
Keep an eye on its charge state during the winter and recharge as needed
and its batteries will last a lot longer. Fortunately modern hybrid
battery chemistry (or Li-ion) has a much lower self-discharge rate than
NiMH batteries.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 10:05:23 AM UTC+10, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 15:41:52 -0700, Tony wrote:

On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 6:21:35 PM UTC-4, Tony wrote:
Hey all, my Nano-3 is up to date and worked fine a few weeks ago.

Trying to charge it for tomorrow, it continues to DISCHARGE when
plugged in to factory wall charger, brand x wall charger, and through
PC/USB, both with unit shut down and while up and running.

Started at over 20% battery but it only goes down. 2 LEDs.

I am going to let it crash and try charging from that state, any other
udeas?
So finally the discharge is reversing. I did not let it crash, decided
that would be risky. Just kept unplugging/replugging and shutting down.
Room temperature for three weeks and around 40% charge, apparently that
falls under the cautions? Had this thing for about 7 years and new
battery last year, looks like I have to treat it with suspicion and kid
gloves from now on!?
What sort of batteries does it use? If its on AA or AAA cells, they're
probably NiMH, which are pretty much junk. Replace then with Sanyo EneLoop
and you'll see a big difference.

The other point, particularly a problem with NiMH chemistry, is that they
self-discharge quite rapidly - and this process is speeded up if the
device using them has any type of soft-touch switch rather than a
mechanical power switch. The former makes the device permanently 'on'
because soft-touch switches burn battery power while they are watching
for somebody to press the on switch.

As a result, when you aren't using the PNA/PDA/logger which has a soft-
touch power switch they are still using battery power.

Example: I have a fairly old EW Micro logger, which uses a set of four
NiMH AA cells to power it when it isn't connected to the glider's 12v
supply. It also has a soft-touch power switch. Consequently, if it isn't
recharged at least once a month during winter, when we aren't flying, the
NiMH cells will be destroyed, and must be replaced and the logger will
have also loose its configuration settings.

My Medion S.3747 PNA, which runs LK8000, has the same issue, a touch-
sensitive power switch, and also needs to be recharged each month over
winter, while by contrast the even older Binatone PNA that the Medion
replaced has a mechanical power switch and only needs charging every six
months or so.

I've never used a Nano, but I have a strong suspicion that it has a soft-
touch power switch and so will flatten its batteries relatively fast.
Keep an eye on its charge state during the winter and recharge as needed
and its batteries will last a lot longer. Fortunately modern hybrid
battery chemistry (or Li-ion) has a much lower self-discharge rate than
NiMH batteries.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

I believe it uses an 1800mAh LiPo that is not user replaceable. I have seen one swell up like an old laptop before so they are not immune to failure. I would guess yours has failed and needs replacing.

On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 10:33:15 PM UTC-4, Matthew Scutter wrote:
On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 10:05:23 AM UTC+10, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 15:41:52 -0700, Tony wrote:

On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 6:21:35 PM UTC-4, Tony wrote:
Hey all, my Nano-3 is up to date and worked fine a few weeks ago.

Trying to charge it for tomorrow, it continues to DISCHARGE when
plugged in to factory wall charger, brand x wall charger, and through
PC/USB, both with unit shut down and while up and running.

Started at over 20% battery but it only goes down. 2 LEDs.

I am going to let it crash and try charging from that state, any other
udeas?
So finally the discharge is reversing. I did not let it crash, decided
that would be risky. Just kept unplugging/replugging and shutting down.
Room temperature for three weeks and around 40% charge, apparently that
falls under the cautions? Had this thing for about 7 years and new
battery last year, looks like I have to treat it with suspicion and kid
gloves from now on!?
What sort of batteries does it use? If its on AA or AAA cells, they're
probably NiMH, which are pretty much junk. Replace then with Sanyo EneLoop
and you'll see a big difference.

The other point, particularly a problem with NiMH chemistry, is that they
self-discharge quite rapidly - and this process is speeded up if the
device using them has any type of soft-touch switch rather than a
mechanical power switch. The former makes the device permanently 'on'
because soft-touch switches burn battery power while they are watching
for somebody to press the on switch.

As a result, when you aren't using the PNA/PDA/logger which has a soft-
touch power switch they are still using battery power.

Example: I have a fairly old EW Micro logger, which uses a set of four
NiMH AA cells to power it when it isn't connected to the glider's 12v
supply. It also has a soft-touch power switch. Consequently, if it isn't
recharged at least once a month during winter, when we aren't flying, the
NiMH cells will be destroyed, and must be replaced and the logger will
have also loose its configuration settings.

My Medion S.3747 PNA, which runs LK8000, has the same issue, a touch-
sensitive power switch, and also needs to be recharged each month over
winter, while by contrast the even older Binatone PNA that the Medion
replaced has a mechanical power switch and only needs charging every six
months or so.

I've never used a Nano, but I have a strong suspicion that it has a soft-
touch power switch and so will flatten its batteries relatively fast.
Keep an eye on its charge state during the winter and recharge as needed
and its batteries will last a lot longer. Fortunately modern hybrid
battery chemistry (or Li-ion) has a much lower self-discharge rate than
NiMH batteries.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
I believe it uses an 1800mAh LiPo that is not user replaceable. I have seen one swell up like an old laptop before so they are not immune to failure. I would guess yours has failed and needs replacing.
Nano and Nano 3 are user replaceable and without worrying about the seal.

On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 11:31:19 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 10:33:15 PM UTC-4, Matthew Scutter wrote:
On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 10:05:23 AM UTC+10, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 15:41:52 -0700, Tony wrote:

On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 6:21:35 PM UTC-4, Tony wrote:
Hey all, my Nano-3 is up to date and worked fine a few weeks ago.

Trying to charge it for tomorrow, it continues to DISCHARGE when
plugged in to factory wall charger, brand x wall charger, and through
PC/USB, both with unit shut down and while up and running.

Started at over 20% battery but it only goes down. 2 LEDs.

I am going to let it crash and try charging from that state, any other
udeas?
So finally the discharge is reversing. I did not let it crash, decided
that would be risky. Just kept unplugging/replugging and shutting down.
Room temperature for three weeks and around 40% charge, apparently that
falls under the cautions? Had this thing for about 7 years and new
battery last year, looks like I have to treat it with suspicion and kid
gloves from now on!?
What sort of batteries does it use? If its on AA or AAA cells, they're
probably NiMH, which are pretty much junk. Replace then with Sanyo EneLoop
and you'll see a big difference.

The other point, particularly a problem with NiMH chemistry, is that they
self-discharge quite rapidly - and this process is speeded up if the
device using them has any type of soft-touch switch rather than a
mechanical power switch. The former makes the device permanently 'on'
because soft-touch switches burn battery power while they are watching
for somebody to press the on switch.

As a result, when you aren't using the PNA/PDA/logger which has a soft-
touch power switch they are still using battery power.

Example: I have a fairly old EW Micro logger, which uses a set of four
NiMH AA cells to power it when it isn't connected to the glider's 12v
supply. It also has a soft-touch power switch. Consequently, if it isn't
recharged at least once a month during winter, when we aren't flying, the
NiMH cells will be destroyed, and must be replaced and the logger will
have also loose its configuration settings.

My Medion S.3747 PNA, which runs LK8000, has the same issue, a touch-
sensitive power switch, and also needs to be recharged each month over
winter, while by contrast the even older Binatone PNA that the Medion
replaced has a mechanical power switch and only needs charging every six
months or so.

I've never used a Nano, but I have a strong suspicion that it has a soft-
touch power switch and so will flatten its batteries relatively fast.
Keep an eye on its charge state during the winter and recharge as needed
and its batteries will last a lot longer. Fortunately modern hybrid
battery chemistry (or Li-ion) has a much lower self-discharge rate than
NiMH batteries.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
I believe it uses an 1800mAh LiPo that is not user replaceable. I have seen one swell up like an old laptop before so they are not immune to failure. I would guess yours has failed and needs replacing.
Nano and Nano 3 are user replaceable and without worrying about the seal.

You may want to ask about this on the LXNAV Google group.

This is from the Nano³ manual:

4.11 Replacing battery
The battery can be replaced by user. You will need a screwdriver with cross head (Phillips).
Unscrew three screws.
Open the cover and remove the battery.
Insert a new Nokia 3310 battery (Li-Ion). Make sure that the contacts are properly aligned.
Close the cover and screw back three screws gently.

So no problem there. It could be that your new battery is less resistant than your first one, especially when getting very low on charge...

The only problem I had with my Nano³ (original battery - 2014) was that it disconnected in flight, interrupted the log and restarted the Nano. I solved this by putting some padding behind the battery, to keep it in place..

On 4/28/21 4:41 PM, Tony wrote:
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 6:21:35 PM UTC-4, Tony wrote:
Hey all, my Nano-3 is up to date and worked fine a few weeks ago.

Trying to charge it for tomorrow, it continues to DISCHARGE when plugged in to factory wall charger, brand x wall charger, and through PC/USB, both with unit shut down and while up and running.

Started at over 20% battery but it only goes down. 2 LEDs.

I am going to let it crash and try charging from that state, any other udeas?
So finally the discharge is reversing. I did not let it crash, decided that would be risky. Just kept unplugging/replugging and shutting down. Room temperature for three weeks and around 40% charge, apparently that falls under the cautions? Had this thing for about 7 years and new battery last year, looks like I have to treat it with suspicion and kid gloves from now on!?


Have you tried different USB cords? They can become intermittent.

One long shot is USB sockets can become contaminated with dust and
pocket lint after years of use, plugging in the connector pushes a
little bit of gunk into the socket each time. If it happens again, try
holding the plug into the unit. Can be cleaned out with something like
a flat wooden toothpick.

On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 10:35:59 AM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
On 4/28/21 4:41 PM, Tony wrote:
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 6:21:35 PM UTC-4, Tony wrote:
Hey all, my Nano-3 is up to date and worked fine a few weeks ago.

Trying to charge it for tomorrow, it continues to DISCHARGE when plugged in to factory wall charger, brand x wall charger, and through PC/USB, both with unit shut down and while up and running.

Started at over 20% battery but it only goes down. 2 LEDs.

I am going to let it crash and try charging from that state, any other udeas?
So finally the discharge is reversing. I did not let it crash, decided that would be risky. Just kept unplugging/replugging and shutting down. Room temperature for three weeks and around 40% charge, apparently that falls under the cautions? Had this thing for about 7 years and new battery last year, looks like I have to treat it with suspicion and kid gloves from now on!?

Have you tried different USB cords? They can become intermittent.

One long shot is USB sockets can become contaminated with dust and
pocket lint after years of use, plugging in the connector pushes a
little bit of gunk into the socket each time. If it happens again, try
holding the plug into the unit. Can be cleaned out with something like
a flat wooden toothpick.
Thanks, everyone. I think Martin may be on the right track. Situation resolved after multiple tries. LXNAV recommended charging without shutting down which I will try tonight. Also going to assume the "extended period" warning applies to weeks, not months!

On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 19:54:16 -0700, Tony wrote:

On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 10:35:59 AM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
On 4/28/21 4:41 PM, Tony wrote:
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 6:21:35 PM UTC-4, Tony wrote:
Hey all, my Nano-3 is up to date and worked fine a few weeks ago.

Trying to charge it for tomorrow, it continues to DISCHARGE when
plugged in to factory wall charger, brand x wall charger, and
through PC/USB, both with unit shut down and while up and running.

Started at over 20% battery but it only goes down. 2 LEDs.

I am going to let it crash and try charging from that state, any
other udeas?
So finally the discharge is reversing. I did not let it crash,
decided that would be risky. Just kept unplugging/replugging and
shutting down. Room temperature for three weeks and around 40%
charge, apparently that falls under the cautions? Had this thing for
about 7 years and new battery last year, looks like I have to treat
it with suspicion and kid gloves from now on!?

Have you tried different USB cords? They can become intermittent.

One long shot is USB sockets can become contaminated with dust and
pocket lint after years of use, plugging in the connector pushes a
little bit of gunk into the socket each time. If it happens again, try
holding the plug into the unit. Can be cleaned out with something like
a flat wooden toothpick.
Thanks, everyone. I think Martin may be on the right track. Situation
resolved after multiple tries. LXNAV recommended charging without
shutting down which I will try tonight. Also going to assume the
"extended period" warning applies to weeks, not months!

I didn't realise it has Li-ion batteries: using any power switch other
than mechanical is bad news for those: if you don't check their charge
state regularly the batteries WILL self-destruct if their voltage falls
below 2.5v per cell or they're charged above 4.2v. On top of that a Li-
ion battery self-discharges at about 2% per month, even when not
connected to anything.

If the Nano's charger (external or built-in) has an automatic cutoff at
full charge and can 'float' when the battery reaches full charge, I'd
leave it permanently on charge when its not being used. This style of
charger has been common for years for SLA batteries and is often supplied
with the device. My camera chargers (both built-in and separate) do this
and so does the charger for my Yaesu FTA-250 hand-held radio.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org