30 minute reserve

Isn't this 30 *minute* reserve rule for day VFR flight a bit odd? Here
are 2 examples to illustrate why I say that. In a J3 Cub you are going
to go just over 35 miles in those 30 minutes. In an RV-7, you can go
100 miles with that same 30 minutes reserve. If there is a head wind
the difference is going be even greater. Both airplanes need about the
same length runway, yes I know the cub can land in less space, but both
need less than 1000 feet. Wouldn't a reserve rule that stated the
minimum distance you could fly in calm air be a better rule?

--
Chris W

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give the gifts they want
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Now that is a good question.I think that the pilot needs to know his
aircraft and plan his rout according to the range and speed of his aircraft.
I asked the same question after my "little" close call.That is what my
instructor explained.
"Chris W" wrote in message
news:Uyrre.28604$rb6.27678@lakeread07...
Isn't this 30 *minute* reserve rule for day VFR flight a bit odd? Here
are 2 examples to illustrate why I say that. In a J3 Cub you are going to
go just over 35 miles in those 30 minutes. In an RV-7, you can go 100
miles with that same 30 minutes reserve. If there is a head wind the
difference is going be even greater. Both airplanes need about the same
length runway, yes I know the cub can land in less space, but both need
less than 1000 feet. Wouldn't a reserve rule that stated the minimum
distance you could fly in calm air be a better rule?
--
Chris W

Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want
http://thewishzone.com

Isn't this 30 *minute* reserve rule for day VFR flight a bit odd?
Wouldn't a reserve rule that stated the minimum distance you could fly in calm air be a better rule?

Probably. But I don't see the (FAA) rules as being "the best idea",
just "a minimum standard". The pilot is (rightly) called upon to apply
intellegent decision making, rather than simply following rules and
expecting roses.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain."
(chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

It's a minimum - not a modus operandi.
As such, it isn't supposed to get you to a perfect runway -
it's supposed to provide you the opportunity to find somewhere safe to
land.

Safety conscious pilots would not, as a matter of routine, consistently
plan to land after a cross country with 30 minutes of fuel.

Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

In article Uyrre.28604$rb6.27678@lakeread07,
Chris W wrote:

Isn't this 30 *minute* reserve rule for day VFR flight a bit odd? Here
are 2 examples to illustrate why I say that. In a J3 Cub you are going
to go just over 35 miles in those 30 minutes. In an RV-7, you can go
100 miles with that same 30 minutes reserve. If there is a head wind
the difference is going be even greater. Both airplanes need about the
same length runway, yes I know the cub can land in less space, but both
need less than 1000 feet. Wouldn't a reserve rule that stated the
minimum distance you could fly in calm air be a better rule?




--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

My personal minimum in the Cub is 4 gallons or 1 hour's flying time.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

Cub Driver wrote:
My personal minimum in the Cub is 4 gallons or 1 hour's flying time.


If I'm worried about fuel, I haven't got enough.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Jose wrote:
Isn't this 30 *minute* reserve rule for day VFR flight a bit odd?
Wouldn't a reserve rule that stated the minimum distance you could fly in calm air be a better rule?

Probably. But I don't see the (FAA) rules as being "the best idea",
just "a minimum standard". The pilot is (rightly) called upon to apply
intellegent decision making, rather than simply following rules and
expecting roses.

As my ground school instructor keeps saying "Legal is not the same as
safe!" Words to live by. We looked at an example last night in class of
taking off in class G airspace (1 mile vis), staying under the 700 ft.
class E floor, flying out to the edge and climbing up to the 1200 ft.
class E floor (east of the Mississippi) droping back down to the 700
ft. class E floor on approach to another airport and calling for SVFR
clearance into the class E space. All legal, but definitly not smart or
safe. There are 600 + ft radio towers along the route.

John
22 hour student, soloed.

Chris wrote:

If there is a head wind the difference is going be even greater.

A truly proficient pilot will plan fuel consumption based on forecasted
winds aloft for that day, any diversions needed, and then add 30
minutes (or whatever his/her personal minimums) for regulation
requirements.

A pilot who fuel plans with the assumption that the reserve will cover
winds aloft, unexpected vectoring, and diversions around weather is a
pilot who *will* experience a fuel emergency sometime during an
upcoming flight.

--
Peter

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 02:54:28 GMT, "STEVEN SIMPSON"
wrote in EFrre.3671$1q5.2293@trnddc02::

I think that the pilot needs to know his aircraft and plan his rout
according to the range and speed of his aircraft.

Right. With full tanks, it's more about distance planning.

I asked the same question after my "little" close call.

I can see that the FAA may want to force pilots to carry some fuel
reserve to compensate for their possible certification inaccuracies
and the vagaries of government metrological forecasting, not to
mention possible pilot flight planning errors. If there were no fuel
reserve requirements at all, there would doubtless be many more fuel
exhaustion incidents occurring.

But the OP was referring to the dispirit airspeeds of aircraft
resulting in widely varying distance capabilities as a result of the
30 minute VFR fuel reserve requirement. Perhaps the arbitrary 30
minutes doesn't concern distance to a safe landing site as much as
guaranteeing 30 minutes search time for a place to set down or better
weather. If the VFR fuel reserve requirement were about distance
instead of time, there would be an alternate destination airport
requirement as there is with IFR flight planning.

On 2005-06-14, Chris W wrote:
Isn't this 30 *minute* reserve rule for day VFR flight a bit odd? Here
are 2 examples to illustrate why I say that. In a J3 Cub you are going
to go just over 35 miles in those 30 minutes. In an RV-7, you can go
100 miles with that same 30 minutes reserve.
[snip]
need less than 1000 feet. Wouldn't a reserve rule that stated the
minimum distance you could fly in calm air be a better rule?

No, because it doesn't make sense. The fuel consumption in a plane
is not even strongly tied to distance, it's entirely tied to time in
the air. Since (as you point out) there are massive differences
between different aircraft, if you set out a reasonable minimum
fuel (based on calm air distance) for a Cub, it'd be entirely
unreasonable for a Piper Meridien or perhaps a Learjet (yes, they are
sometimes flown VFR, not often but it happens). If you set a distance
that's reasonable for a Piper Meridien, it'd be completely unreasonable
(and possibly out of the full fuel range) of a Pietenpol Aircamper. Or
in a strong wind (imagine the winds aloft are 40 knots, and you are
flying something like an Evans VP-1 which does about 55 knots on a good
day, you could plan a 100NM flight, run out of of fuel 20 miles from
your departure point, and based on a distance based reserve you were
entirely legal all along).

Basing the VFR minimum on *time* is far better, because then you get to
decide whether you meet minimum reserve based on actual conditions -
i.e. the plane you are flying and the wind conditions. Basing it on
distance would be silly.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"