Commercial Ticket Endeavor

I am currently IFR and have been giving some consideration into going
after the commercial rating. I have been studying the requirements and
wanted to post some questions to the group...

Please bear in mind that I don't typically cut corners when it comes to
safety, but am always looking to save a few $$$ where it makes sense.
After all, this hobby/passion is expensive enough as it is! (I
currently own a 172 and it's all I can do to cover the annual expenses
on it and still have enough left over to put gas in it from time to
time)

My bottom-line question is... How much is this going to cost me and
can I really afford it?

Aside from the 10 hours of complex time (plus the checkride in a
complex airplane) and the instructor costs for those 10 hours, it seems
like most of the requirements may have already been covered in the
instrument training or can be done on your own. For example: The 300
NM XCtry, 5 hr. night-VFR with 10 to's and lndgs. at a towered airport,
....

I know there are some new maneuvers, but those can be learned in the
172 and confirmed in the complex plane as part of the 10 hours.

It just seems to me that most of the requirements may have been met
during previous training and/or by getting out and flying?

Is it reasonable to think that I might be able to:
* Spend 4 or 5 hours in the 172, learning all the new maneuvers for
the checkride (at the cost of fuel and an instructor)
* Spend 10 hours in a complex plane (at the cost of the plane and
instructor), learning the plane and dialing in the maneuvers
* Take the checkride (cost of DE and plane)

If I flew a 2 hr. day XCtry and 2 hr. night XCtry, meeting the NM
requirements, with an instructor while working on the instrument
rating, would that carry-over? Is the requirement that a logbook entry
exist for those elements, or that they were done while training for the
commercial rating?

My ultimate goal is to get the CFI ticket, and let other help support
my habit! ;-)

I'm interested in hearing thoughts or experiences from others.

Best Regards,
Todd

three-eight-hotel wrote:
If I flew a 2 hr. day XCtry and 2 hr. night XCtry, meeting the NM
requirements, with an instructor while working on the instrument
rating, would that carry-over? Is the requirement that a logbook entry
exist for those elements, or that they were done while training for the
commercial rating?


Any cross country you've done in the past for any reason is usable if it meets
the criteria. If you have a reasonably fresh instrument rating you're pretty
good to go. Learning the basics of the required maneuvers in a complex single
may be easier than in your C-172; you've got to burn up 10 hours somehow anyway.

I'd say go for it. I did the same thing myself not so I could earn a living so
much as to get people to ride with me. People who are reluctant to ride with a
private pilot often don't show the same reticence with a commercial one.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

except that the criteria states that it is a VFR cross country.. night and
day.. any work under the hood enroute or an approach at either end negates
the use of that cross country for the Commercial rating.

BT

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
news
three-eight-hotel wrote:
If I flew a 2 hr. day XCtry and 2 hr. night XCtry, meeting the NM
requirements, with an instructor while working on the instrument
rating, would that carry-over? Is the requirement that a logbook entry
exist for those elements, or that they were done while training for the
commercial rating?


Any cross country you've done in the past for any reason is usable if it
meets the criteria. If you have a reasonably fresh instrument rating
you're pretty good to go. Learning the basics of the required maneuvers
in a complex single may be easier than in your C-172; you've got to burn
up 10 hours somehow anyway.

I'd say go for it. I did the same thing myself not so I could earn a
living so much as to get people to ride with me. People who are reluctant
to ride with a private pilot often don't show the same reticence with a
commercial one.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:rdhEe.18897$Eo.5130@fed1read04...
except that the criteria states that it is a VFR cross country.. night and
day.. any work under the hood enroute or an approach at either end negates
the use of that cross country for the Commercial rating.

Not true. As long as there are 2 hours of VFR flight, the rest of the time
can be under the hood. The presence of instrument training does not, in and
of itself, invalidate the flight from being used for that requirement.

Seems to me I obtained my Commercial Certificate in about 15 hours of
plane rental. Most of the time was spent doing those damn commercial
manuevers. Seems like everyone wants them done a little differently. It
was a pretty easy rating for me. LOTS easier than the IFR or the CFI.

Doug wrote:
Seems to me I obtained my Commercial Certificate in about 15 hours of
plane rental. Most of the time was spent doing those damn commercial
manuevers. Seems like everyone wants them done a little differently. It
was a pretty easy rating for me. LOTS easier than the IFR or the CFI.


It's the easiest ... although I'd put the multi engine in the same category, so
to speak. Certainly the private license is harder and the IFR rating the most
difficult. Frankly, I'd assume the private license to be tougher than the ATP,
if only because the learning curve is so steep. By the time you're taking an
ATP checkride you've been around for a while.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

tell that to my CFI and the DE

BT

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:rdhEe.18897$Eo.5130@fed1read04...
except that the criteria states that it is a VFR cross country.. night
and day.. any work under the hood enroute or an approach at either end
negates the use of that cross country for the Commercial rating.

Not true. As long as there are 2 hours of VFR flight, the rest of the
time can be under the hood. The presence of instrument training does not,
in and of itself, invalidate the flight from being used for that
requirement.

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:GTzEe.19057$Eo.6904@fed1read04...
tell that to my CFI and the DE

Give me their names and phone numbers, and I will be happy to explain it to
them. I'll even fax them a copy of the Part 61 FAQ, since they and you are
apparently too lazy to bother with researching the issue directly. The FAQ
addresses this very issue, very specifically. It's hard to imagine the
issue explained any more clearly.

Pete

"three-eight-hotel" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am currently IFR and have been giving some consideration into going
after the commercial rating. I have been studying the requirements and
wanted to post some questions to the group...

Please bear in mind that I don't typically cut corners when it comes to
safety, but am always looking to save a few $$$ where it makes sense.
After all, this hobby/passion is expensive enough as it is! (I
currently own a 172 and it's all I can do to cover the annual expenses
on it and still have enough left over to put gas in it from time to
time)

My bottom-line question is... How much is this going to cost me and
can I really afford it?

Aside from the 10 hours of complex time (plus the checkride in a
complex airplane) and the instructor costs for those 10 hours, it seems
like most of the requirements may have already been covered in the
instrument training or can be done on your own. For example: The 300
NM XCtry, 5 hr. night-VFR with 10 to's and lndgs. at a towered airport,
...

I know there are some new maneuvers, but those can be learned in the
172 and confirmed in the complex plane as part of the 10 hours.

It just seems to me that most of the requirements may have been met
during previous training and/or by getting out and flying?

[snip]

I've been toying with this idea, too. I just got my IFR rating last August.
I'd have to look in my log book to see how far that one was. It wasn't at
night, though. Is it 300NM night XC? I've got 1.5 hours in an Arrow to get
my Complex endorsement. So, I'd only need another 8.5. Already had my HP.
Other than going for my CFI, what good does a Commercial do, other than
guarantee my AME a yearly visit, instead of every 3 years? Can I finally
charge a friend of mine for doing aerial photography?

Steven Barnes wrote:

Other than going for my CFI, what good does a Commercial do, other than
guarantee my AME a yearly visit, instead of every 3 years? Can I finally
charge a friend of mine for doing aerial photography?

you can get a commercial certificate on a Class-III medical,
no need to upgrade; you only need the higher class of
medical certificate to *exercise* the privileges of the
commercial certificate (i.e., get paid :-) --- as for
charging friends for this or that, you want to read very
carefully the relevant regulations, e.g., 14 CFR 119, etc.
a commercial certificate does not turn you into a commercial
operator...

There is nothing wrong in getting a commercial certificate
for its own sake, i.e., there is some satisfaction to gain
from achieving higher standards; it does not necessarily
translate into anything practical :-)

--Sylvain