Plane down on Vail Pass

Local radio reports a plane down alongside I-70 on Vail Pass, Colorado --
elevation 11,000 feet. Anyone hear something about this?

Seth
N8100R

According to the Denver Post:
"The plane went down east of Vail, in between the resort town and the
10,666-foot summit of Vail Pass, said Suzanne Silverthorn,
community officer for Vail."

The question I have is why were they in that location? The
Eagle-Vail (EGE) airport is west of Vail. Following I-70 (Vail Pass) is
not exactly a good idea, due to the non-stop winding roads. No place
"straight" to land until west of Vail (which is why the airport
is west).

I can only think of 3 reasons- and remember, this is purely
conjecture. I know absolutely nothing more than what's been
reported:

1) scenic tour of the valley
2) student & CFI
3) they didn't know any better

Update from the NBC affiliate:
"EAGLE COUNTY - A Piper PA-32 crashed near I-70 at the summit of Vail Pass
Friday morning after trying to land in the westbound lanes of the highway.

The plane touched down on the highway, then hit some trees before
coming to rest on the mountainside about 25 feet up a slope,
said Jamie Wilson, a spokesperson for the town of Vail."

Assuming a 53F temp over there (I'm in Denver), at 11K, that means
13K density altitude. At ground level. At a reasonable flight
altitude of 12.5K to 14K, we're talking 15K-16.8K density altitude.

Current conditions are calm winds, 54F, vis 9 sm, clear sky. Winds have
either been calm or less than 7 mph since 8 pm last night.

Forced landing. Here's the preliminary dope:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...57/detail.html
also http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_231134313.html

One report says they were en route to Leadville, the highest paved strip in
the US at 10,000 feet.

If this was a Cherokee 160, they were operating at service ceiling. If a
Cherokee 180, they had some reserve. Not speculating here, but that's the
fact.

I've crossed Vail Pass in a rented Cherokee -- but I'm more comfortable
doing it in my own plane, where I have 250 hp and can pop up to 14,000
without a second thought.

Seth
N8100R


"Blanche" wrote in message
...
According to the Denver Post:
"The plane went down east of Vail, in between the resort town and the
10,666-foot summit of Vail Pass, said Suzanne Silverthorn,
community officer for Vail."

The question I have is why were they in that location? The
Eagle-Vail (EGE) airport is west of Vail. Following I-70 (Vail Pass) is
not exactly a good idea, due to the non-stop winding roads. No place
"straight" to land until west of Vail (which is why the airport
is west).

I can only think of 3 reasons- and remember, this is purely
conjecture. I know absolutely nothing more than what's been
reported:

1) scenic tour of the valley
2) student & CFI
3) they didn't know any better

Update from the NBC affiliate:
"EAGLE COUNTY - A Piper PA-32 crashed near I-70 at the summit of Vail Pass
Friday morning after trying to land in the westbound lanes of the highway.

The plane touched down on the highway, then hit some trees before
coming to rest on the mountainside about 25 feet up a slope,
said Jamie Wilson, a spokesperson for the town of Vail."

Assuming a 53F temp over there (I'm in Denver), at 11K, that means
13K density altitude. At ground level. At a reasonable flight
altitude of 12.5K to 14K, we're talking 15K-16.8K density altitude.

Current conditions are calm winds, 54F, vis 9 sm, clear sky. Winds have
either been calm or less than 7 mph since 8 pm last night.

A PA-32 is a Cherokee Six or variant. Could have either 260 or 300 horses.

Bob Gardner

"Seth Masia" wrote in message
...
Forced landing. Here's the preliminary dope:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...57/detail.html
also http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_231134313.html

One report says they were en route to Leadville, the highest paved strip
in the US at 10,000 feet.

If this was a Cherokee 160, they were operating at service ceiling. If a
Cherokee 180, they had some reserve. Not speculating here, but that's the
fact.

I've crossed Vail Pass in a rented Cherokee -- but I'm more comfortable
doing it in my own plane, where I have 250 hp and can pop up to 14,000
without a second thought.

Seth
N8100R


"Blanche" wrote in message
...
According to the Denver Post:
"The plane went down east of Vail, in between the resort town and the
10,666-foot summit of Vail Pass, said Suzanne Silverthorn,
community officer for Vail."

The question I have is why were they in that location? The
Eagle-Vail (EGE) airport is west of Vail. Following I-70 (Vail Pass) is
not exactly a good idea, due to the non-stop winding roads. No place
"straight" to land until west of Vail (which is why the airport
is west).

I can only think of 3 reasons- and remember, this is purely
conjecture. I know absolutely nothing more than what's been
reported:

1) scenic tour of the valley
2) student & CFI
3) they didn't know any better

Update from the NBC affiliate:
"EAGLE COUNTY - A Piper PA-32 crashed near I-70 at the summit of Vail
Pass
Friday morning after trying to land in the westbound lanes of the
highway.

The plane touched down on the highway, then hit some trees before
coming to rest on the mountainside about 25 feet up a slope,
said Jamie Wilson, a spokesperson for the town of Vail."

Assuming a 53F temp over there (I'm in Denver), at 11K, that means
13K density altitude. At ground level. At a reasonable flight
altitude of 12.5K to 14K, we're talking 15K-16.8K density altitude.

Current conditions are calm winds, 54F, vis 9 sm, clear sky. Winds have
either been calm or less than 7 mph since 8 pm last night.

You're right. It's a six-cylinder engine. They should have had plenty of
power, unless they had none. Check the prop: does it look as if it was
turning?

Seth

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
A PA-32 is a Cherokee Six or variant. Could have either 260 or 300 horses.

Bob Gardner

"Seth Masia" wrote in message
...
Forced landing. Here's the preliminary dope:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...57/detail.html
also http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_231134313.html

One report says they were en route to Leadville, the highest paved strip
in the US at 10,000 feet.

If this was a Cherokee 160, they were operating at service ceiling. If a
Cherokee 180, they had some reserve. Not speculating here, but that's
the fact.

I've crossed Vail Pass in a rented Cherokee -- but I'm more comfortable
doing it in my own plane, where I have 250 hp and can pop up to 14,000
without a second thought.

Seth
N8100R


"Blanche" wrote in message
...
According to the Denver Post:
"The plane went down east of Vail, in between the resort town and the
10,666-foot summit of Vail Pass, said Suzanne Silverthorn,
community officer for Vail."

The question I have is why were they in that location? The
Eagle-Vail (EGE) airport is west of Vail. Following I-70 (Vail Pass) is
not exactly a good idea, due to the non-stop winding roads. No place
"straight" to land until west of Vail (which is why the airport
is west).

I can only think of 3 reasons- and remember, this is purely
conjecture. I know absolutely nothing more than what's been
reported:

1) scenic tour of the valley
2) student & CFI
3) they didn't know any better

Update from the NBC affiliate:
"EAGLE COUNTY - A Piper PA-32 crashed near I-70 at the summit of Vail
Pass
Friday morning after trying to land in the westbound lanes of the
highway.

The plane touched down on the highway, then hit some trees before
coming to rest on the mountainside about 25 feet up a slope,
said Jamie Wilson, a spokesperson for the town of Vail."

Assuming a 53F temp over there (I'm in Denver), at 11K, that means
13K density altitude. At ground level. At a reasonable flight
altitude of 12.5K to 14K, we're talking 15K-16.8K density altitude.

Current conditions are calm winds, 54F, vis 9 sm, clear sky. Winds have
either been calm or less than 7 mph since 8 pm last night.

"Seth Masia" wrote in message
...
You're right. It's a six-cylinder engine. They should have had plenty of
power, unless they had none. Check the prop: does it look as if it was
turning?


From the photos here
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...57/detail.html

all three blades are bent.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in news:rGqNe.2120$7f5.470
@okepread01:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...57/detail.html

I dunno, looking at "photo 6" it appears only 1 blade is bent back as if it
was not moving when the planes belly hit (it was then rotated to the top in
the ensuing belly slide) that's my theory anyway. The top blade does not
have that characteristic "prop strike" bend.

--
-- ET :-)

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

Seth Masia wrote:
Forced landing. Here's the preliminary dope:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...57/detail.html
also http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_231134313.html

One report says they were en route to Leadville, the highest paved strip in
the US at 10,000 feet.

If this was a Cherokee 160, they were operating at service ceiling. If a
Cherokee 180, they had some reserve. Not speculating here, but that's the
fact.

I've crossed Vail Pass in a rented Cherokee -- but I'm more comfortable
doing it in my own plane, where I have 250 hp and can pop up to 14,000
without a second thought.

Seth
N8100R


If they were going to Leadville, the question is where did they start
from? If anywhere on the east side of the mountains (e.g. the Front
Range which means Ft. Collins - Denver - Colorado Springs - Pueblo)
there are much safer and easier routes to get to
Leadville. Flying I-70 (which is seems they were doing) is NOT
recommended. I've got a cherokee 180 and no way would I ever
go to Leadville by way of I-70.

If they were on the west side, then there's still a safer way
than direct Vail to Leadville. It's called backtracking west almost
to Glenwood Springs, and coming down the valley to Basalt then
heading east (and do not ever fly Independence Pass!)

It looks like they may have been trying to take the Vail-Minturn
route to Leadville.

I agree. It also looks to me as if the prop is feathered.

Other issue is that the direct route Rock Springs to Leadville is via
Tennessee Pass, which is also about 400' lower. Crossing Vail Pass means
you still have to cross Fremont Pass, about 900' higher than Tennessee.

Seth

"ET" wrote in message
...
"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in
news:rGqNe.2120$7f5.470
@okepread01:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...57/detail.html

I dunno, looking at "photo 6" it appears only 1 blade is bent back as if
it
was not moving when the planes belly hit (it was then rotated to the top
in
the ensuing belly slide) that's my theory anyway. The top blade does not
have that characteristic "prop strike" bend.

--
-- ET :-)

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

They came down 12nm east of Minturn, which is where they'd have turned south
to fly the Tennessee Pass route.

Seth

"Blanche" wrote in message
...
Seth Masia wrote:
Forced landing. Here's the preliminary dope:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...57/detail.html
also http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_231134313.html

One report says they were en route to Leadville, the highest paved strip
in
the US at 10,000 feet.

If this was a Cherokee 160, they were operating at service ceiling. If a
Cherokee 180, they had some reserve. Not speculating here, but that's the
fact.

I've crossed Vail Pass in a rented Cherokee -- but I'm more comfortable
doing it in my own plane, where I have 250 hp and can pop up to 14,000
without a second thought.

Seth
N8100R


If they were going to Leadville, the question is where did they start
from? If anywhere on the east side of the mountains (e.g. the Front
Range which means Ft. Collins - Denver - Colorado Springs - Pueblo)
there are much safer and easier routes to get to
Leadville. Flying I-70 (which is seems they were doing) is NOT
recommended. I've got a cherokee 180 and no way would I ever
go to Leadville by way of I-70.

If they were on the west side, then there's still a safer way
than direct Vail to Leadville. It's called backtracking west almost
to Glenwood Springs, and coming down the valley to Basalt then
heading east (and do not ever fly Independence Pass!)

It looks like they may have been trying to take the Vail-Minturn
route to Leadville.