shooting yourself down - more physics?

If you guys aren't tired of arithmetic, I'm wondering if any fighter
pilots have shot themselves down. Probably not, but imagine you're
flying straight and level at 1000 mph and fire a 500 mph projectile at
an enemy that's directly ahead but at a higher altitude. You miss him;
the bullet follows a parabolic path, returning to your altitude just as
you overtake it. Discounting air friction, at what angle was the bullet
fired?

(extra credit question -- how many rivets could you have installed in
the time you wasted thinking about this question?)

what angle was the bullet fired?

I'd suspect that the caliber - the loading of the bulltets (propellent
and bullet weight and shape) would have influence onn the outcome as
well ~ to answer your question.

extra credit question --

Five carefully measured and placed, 50 if placed haphazardly. This
also depends on the dificulty of the location of rivets to be
installed.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

Discounting air friction, at what angle was the bullet
fired?


Discounting air friction the angle would be 90 degrees, straight up.

Smitty Two asked:

If you guys aren't tired of arithmetic, I'm wondering if any fighter
pilots have shot themselves down. Probably not, but imagine you're
flying straight and level at 1000 mph and fire a 500 mph projectile at
an enemy that's directly ahead but at a higher altitude. You miss him;
the bullet follows a parabolic path, returning to your altitude just as
you overtake it. Discounting air friction, at what angle was the bullet
fired?

Before you find yourself in the same trap as me, let me ask for some
clarification:

1. Since you stipulate a vacuum, are we flying above the Earth?
2. How high?
3. Are we flying at an absolute altitude, e.g. following an orbital path?
4. Is the plane flying level at the moment of firing with only the gun
pointed up at the target airplane?

Rich "Without a clue" S.

In article ,
"Rich S." wrote:

Smitty Two asked:

If you guys aren't tired of arithmetic, I'm wondering if any fighter
pilots have shot themselves down. Probably not, but imagine you're
flying straight and level at 1000 mph and fire a 500 mph projectile at
an enemy that's directly ahead but at a higher altitude. You miss him;
the bullet follows a parabolic path, returning to your altitude just as
you overtake it. Discounting air friction, at what angle was the bullet
fired?

Before you find yourself in the same trap as me, let me ask for some
clarification:

1. Since you stipulate a vacuum, are we flying above the Earth?
2. How high?
3. Are we flying at an absolute altitude, e.g. following an orbital path?
4. Is the plane flying level at the moment of firing with only the gun
pointed up at the target airplane?

Rich "Without a clue" S.

I think I'm already in that trap, but it wasn't my intention (or yours,
I know) for this to be a trick question based on ambiguity in the
phrasing.

But, sure, I'll address your concerns.

1. I didn't stipulate a vacuum. My engine and wing don't work very well
without air. I said, to simplify calculations, ignore the effects of
friction on the projectile. We are flying above the earth.

2. At an altitude at which acceleration due to gravity is 32 feet per
second per second. Assume this remains constant throughout.

3. With the exception of the airplanes and the guns, this is a
pre-Columbian question. The earth is flat. Or, if you prefer, we're
flying tangentially to its curved surface.

4. The plane is flying level, as I believe I stated.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
I think I'm already in that trap, but it wasn't my intention (or yours,
I know) for this to be a trick question based on ambiguity in the
phrasing.

But, sure, I'll address your concerns.

1. I didn't stipulate a vacuum. My engine and wing don't work very well
without air. I said, to simplify calculations, ignore the effects of
friction on the projectile. We are flying above the earth.

2. At an altitude at which acceleration due to gravity is 32 feet per
second per second. Assume this remains constant throughout.

3. With the exception of the airplanes and the guns, this is a
pre-Columbian question. The earth is flat. Or, if you prefer, we're
flying tangentially to its curved surface.

4. The plane is flying level, as I believe I stated.

Kewl! That makes it easy!

I don't know.

Rich S.

Bill Chernoff wrote:
Discounting air friction, at what angle was the bullet

fired?



Discounting air friction the angle would be 90 degrees, straight up.

But that would neglect the coriolis force... :-)

Matt

I remember reading of a F-104 Starfighter pilot who shoot himself down.
He tested his guns, then accelerated, nose down and ran into his own
shells.

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:21:29 -0400, Smitty Two
wrote:

If you guys aren't tired of arithmetic, I'm wondering if any fighter
pilots have shot themselves down. Probably not, but imagine you're
flying straight and level at 1000 mph and fire a 500 mph projectile at
an enemy that's directly ahead but at a higher altitude. You miss him;
the bullet follows a parabolic path, returning to your altitude just as
you overtake it. Discounting air friction, at what angle was the bullet
fired?

(extra credit question -- how many rivets could you have installed in
the time you wasted thinking about this question?)

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

"Bill Chernoff" wrote:

Discounting air friction, at what angle was the bullet
fired?


Discounting air friction the angle would be 90 degrees, straight up.

Yep. I was going to say "impossible" since he was firing at a plane
ahead of him, and I incorrectly translated that to a barrel angle with
some forward component. But you are right, the 90-degree angle may
well have been the firing solution for the target ahead of him, given
differences in the plane's velocities. Glad I read your correct answer
before giving my answer of "impossible"!
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"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
If you guys aren't tired of arithmetic, I'm wondering if any fighter
pilots have shot themselves down. Probably not, but imagine you're

I know a guy who got shot down by his own waist gunner in a B-24, does that
count?

(The gun mount broke and the gunner didn't let go of the trigger as he (and
the gun) fell backwards...)

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the sea hawk at wow way d0t com
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