Air Gizmos GPS panel mounts

We've recently purchased one of the Air Gizmos mounts for our Garmin
296. I've seen it installed in another Cessna and spoken with the owner
who says no field approval is needed for this product. Our A&P, who is
a stickler for the rules(and rightly so if you ask me), says this
product requires a field approval as it is permanently fixed to the
aircraft. The reasoning the Cessna owner with it installed gave for not
needing the approval was that it can be disconnected and removed
easily. I assume he was talking about the actual GPS unit AND the
dock. I dont see how it's possible to install the dock and have it
easily removable, but hey what the heck.
The manufacturer states on their site, http://www.airgizmos.com, that a
field approval is needed for installation in a certified aircraft.
Am I correct in assuming then that a field approval is needed for this
in our Cessna? I dont suppose there are any ways around this for a
certified aircraft(non-experimental)?

Also, for those A&P's out there, just exactly what is the process and
all the hoops you have to jump through to get a field approval for
something like this. Is it documented somewhere where I can take a look
at it?
Our A&P said the first thing he'd have to prove to the FSDO what that
the product was fire-retardant. We've already contacted the maker of
the product and he sent us a pdf containing information on the plastic
that was used. He's also very interested in how our approval process
goes.

Thanks for any and all feedback.

Brock Boss
Student Pilot: 16 Hours
Co-owner: '67 172H

On 11/5/2005 2:14 PM, Brock Boss wrote:

We've recently purchased one of the Air Gizmos mounts for our Garmin
296. I've seen it installed in another Cessna and spoken with the owner
who says no field approval is needed for this product. Our A&P, who is
a stickler for the rules(and rightly so if you ask me), says this
product requires a field approval as it is permanently fixed to the
aircraft. The reasoning the Cessna owner with it installed gave for not
needing the approval was that it can be disconnected and removed
easily. I assume he was talking about the actual GPS unit AND the
dock. I dont see how it's possible to install the dock and have it
easily removable, but hey what the heck.
The manufacturer states on their site, http://www.airgizmos.com, that a
field approval is needed for installation in a certified aircraft.
Am I correct in assuming then that a field approval is needed for this
in our Cessna? I dont suppose there are any ways around this for a
certified aircraft(non-experimental)?

Also, for those A&P's out there, just exactly what is the process and
all the hoops you have to jump through to get a field approval for
something like this. Is it documented somewhere where I can take a look
at it?
Our A&P said the first thing he'd have to prove to the FSDO what that
the product was fire-retardant. We've already contacted the maker of
the product and he sent us a pdf containing information on the plastic
that was used. He's also very interested in how our approval process
goes.

They're interested in how it goes?

If they want to sell this for use in certified aircraft, I would
think they would do their homework and not make you do it. In other
words, they should include with the product all the paperwork you
need to get the installation past your FSDO.


Thanks for any and all feedback.

Brock Boss
Student Pilot: 16 Hours
Co-owner: '67 172H



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

Mark Hansen wrote:
On 11/5/2005 2:14 PM, Brock Boss wrote:

They're interested in how it goes?

If they want to sell this for use in certified aircraft, I would
think they would do their homework and not make you do it. In other
words, they should include with the product all the paperwork you
need to get the installation past your FSDO.
--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

Well, they can sell the product for $99 and let the consumer do the
legwork or they can get it certified for several different aircraft and
pass the cost on to me.
Unzip your pants, bend over, and try not to think about it I guess!
You're gonna pay for it one way or another.

Brock Boss wrote:


Also, for those A&P's out there, just exactly what is the process and
all the hoops you have to jump through to get a field approval for
something like this. Is it documented somewhere where I can take a look
at it?

No 337 required. The GPS holder is nothing more than a hole cover that
happens to be shaped like a shelf that happens to perfectly fit a Garmin
GPS. These things are popping up in all kinds of planes. The A&P who
thinks a 337 is required is really not thinking.

Newps,

The GPS holder is nothing more than a hole cover that
happens to be shaped like a shelf that happens to perfectly fit a Garmin
GPS.


I like that way of thinking ;-)

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

I agree with Newps, what part of the 337 process does the company or your
A&P feel that the docking station falls under?? There was an AC issued
asking pilots and mechanics to study the definition and intent of the 337,
it said that too many pilots and too many mechanics were filing and
requesting 337 approval for minor alterations and repairs.

The only thing I could find about a permanent installation that was not a
major alteration or repair concerned interfering with the exiting of the
aircraft in emergency situations.

Jim

"Major alteration" means an alteration not listed in the aircraft, aircraft
engine, or propeller specifications--

(1) That might appreciably affect weight, balance, structural strength,
performance, powerplant operation, flight characteristics, or other
qualities affecting airworthiness; or
(2) That is not done according to accepted practices or cannot be done by
elementary operations.
"Major repair" means a repair:

(1) That, if improperly done, might appreciably affect weight, balance,
structural strength, performance, powerplant operation, flight
characteristics, or other qualities affecting airworthiness; or
(2) That is not done according to accepted practices or cannot be done by
elementary operations.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...C?OpenDocument

The reason the firm is asking for feedback may be so they can see the
wild variations in how the field approval works and the equally wild
variations in the conclusions reached at different FSDOs on their product.

By itself, the piece of plastic is nothing more than a "shelf" or open
glovebox. Snap in a GPS and you have not violated any rules. However,
the INTENTION of putting a GPS into a plastic holder may create a
question in some inspector's mind of whether or not to approve the thing.

The reason the A&Ps are scratching their heads may be because this
represents new territory and they are trying to apply the current rules
which were made before such a device was available.

Our local (big name) shop has installed a couple of them with no
reported approval problems from the local FSDO. They are quick to point
out that you better not have the GPS installed when you pull up to get
it approved.

So, it seems we will play a little "game" of nodding and winking to each
other while this thing "finds its way" in the arcane approval process.

My question is "where do all the wires go?". Do you run them out the
front and all over the place (legal, but messy). Or, are folks stringing
them up behind the panel - secured or not (possibly illegal and
dangerous, but much neater). Anyone make a harness and multipin plug yet?

Mike

Mike Spera wrote:


Our local (big name) shop has installed a couple of them with no
reported approval problems from the local FSDO. They are quick to point
out that you better not have the GPS installed when you pull up to get
it approved.

What? Why would you even bother with FSDO or paperwork? It's not even
a logbook entry.



My question is "where do all the wires go?". Do you run them out the
front and all over the place (legal, but messy). Or, are folks stringing
them up behind the panel - secured or not (possibly illegal and
dangerous, but much neater). Anyone make a harness and multipin plug yet?

Not counting the 396 you have only two wires, antenna and power. I
always have my mechanic install a cig lighter plug under the panel so I
can power up my GPS and Satellite radio and not have to see any cords or
wires. In my current plane the plug is wired to the battery so it is
always hot, that way I can recharge a phone, PDA or Sat radio while in
the woods. You simply run your wires behind the panel and tie wrap them
off.