Any Embry Riddle Grads out there?

My son has been accepted at Embry Riddle (and other aviation-related
universities). We've done the campus tour, and were impressed.

For their piloting program, with tuition, room & board, and estimated flight
costs, we're looking at $42K / year.

Regardless of how much the Bank of Dad, scholarships, work, etc., kick in,
we're looking at financing a chunk o' change if he does end up going there.

Embry seems to take a very light approach to it, relating stories on how
frequently their graduates have outstanding student loans of over $120,000.
(!)

So, my question to you is: If you graduated from ERAU, did you graduate with
hefty loans? Was this a bigger burden than you thought when you first signed
up for them? Was the debt worthwhile (as in, because the ERAU degree took
you further)?

I've gotten many good responses that indicated it's more the caliber of the
man than the degree, get the flying hours elsewhere, etc., but really
haven't seen anyone addressing the financial impact.

Thanks for any insight;
Carl

Go check at the unemployment line. :^) Sorry, couldn't resist...

The Monk

My brother's step-son graduated from ER in Arizona.
He was financed through USAF ROTC scholarship.
He was not in the flight program.
Got his degree in computer science.
Went on to serve twelve years in the Air Force.
Flew Lear C21's flying generals around the world.
Went on to be a C17 instructor pilot before separating this past summer.
He now is flying for NetJets.

I'm retired, and my knowledge of ER is way back I'm afraid; all the way to
Jack Hunt, but nothing current.
The school is one of the finest in the world for getting an aviation
education.
I can't speak to the cost, but I will tell you that graduating from a school
like ER is just getting your foot in the door in today's world of
professional flying.
The market for the good paying left seat jobs is extremely tight, and
recovering the cost in salary can be a daunting task.
Even if you find a graduate who will sing the praises of going this route,
you are still faced with the individual quals required by potential
employers and how all that will equate with any specific graduate vs
employment specs.
Corporate pilot positions have become more and more directed toward those
with both pilot and maintenance certification through the years. Pilots
coming out of the military with heavy experience are always a factor in this
market.
The airlines right now might be a no show. This should be considered.
I hate to nail you with such a negative outlook, and I'm sure you already
have considered much of this yourself.
I know one family who has their daughter enrolled at Riddle now. She's in
both a flying and maintenance fast track. She's pointed at the FAA for
employment.
All I've told you being considered, also consider the fact that I've been
away from things now (hands on so to speak) for quite a while, and the
situation is changing constantly.
Best of luck to you
Dudley Henriques

"Carl Orton" wrote in message
...
My son has been accepted at Embry Riddle (and other aviation-related
universities). We've done the campus tour, and were impressed.

For their piloting program, with tuition, room & board, and estimated
flight costs, we're looking at $42K / year.

Regardless of how much the Bank of Dad, scholarships, work, etc., kick in,
we're looking at financing a chunk o' change if he does end up going
there.

Embry seems to take a very light approach to it, relating stories on how
frequently their graduates have outstanding student loans of over
$120,000. (!)

So, my question to you is: If you graduated from ERAU, did you graduate
with hefty loans? Was this a bigger burden than you thought when you first
signed up for them? Was the debt worthwhile (as in, because the ERAU
degree took you further)?

I've gotten many good responses that indicated it's more the caliber of
the man than the degree, get the flying hours elsewhere, etc., but really
haven't seen anyone addressing the financial impact.

Thanks for any insight;
Carl

I'm not an ERAU grad (went to one of the competing universities), but
know quite a few ERAU people. Pretty much what they've told me is that
they're going to be working off the debt for quite a few years. Some
are with the airlines, but most are flight instructing, living at home,
and pulling in around $15,000 a year. It really is a competitive
market, and I'm not sure that where you go to school makes much
difference. Having a bachelors degree is important, yes, but it doesn't
need to be in flying and it doesn't have to be from ERAU. So said one
of my graduate friends, who, if he had to do it over again, would have
majored in finance, lol.

My own personal opinion...$42,000 a year is ridiculous. My university
cost around $10,000 a year out of state for the maintenance program, and
I did my pilot ratings on my own at the local FBO. Came out with more
hours, more ratings, and more money left in the bank than the flight majors.

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 19:09:42 -0600, "Carl Orton"
wrote:

My son has been accepted at Embry Riddle (and other aviation-related
universities). We've done the campus tour, and were impressed.

For their piloting program, with tuition, room & board, and estimated flight
costs, we're looking at $42K / year.

Regardless of how much the Bank of Dad, scholarships, work, etc., kick in,
we're looking at financing a chunk o' change if he does end up going there.

Embry seems to take a very light approach to it, relating stories on how
frequently their graduates have outstanding student loans of over $120,000.

Irrespective of the end goal, that is a staggering amount of debt for
your son to pay. Even with the low interest rates and tax deductions
available with most student loans, that is enough debt to strangle
your son's start in the real world (post graduation).

If he plans on being a pilot, the affects of the debt will be
amplified by the minimal pay that he can expect as he works his way up
through the flight instructor ranks and commuter ranks.

If those are really the numbers, it is my opinion that your son would
be better off going to the State college, paying a reasonable tuition,
getting a marketable degree, and conducting his flight lessons
independently of his degree work while he is there. Any way you cut
it, flying is not cheap, but this route would be much cheaper than the
figure you provided.

-Nathan

Realistically, your son will NEVER pay down that kind of debt, nor
should he. At today's low rates you just make the monthly payments
until you die. It's only then your student loan debt is discharged
anyway.

If you or he is dead set on ERAU, then talk with the Financial Aid
people to see what loan management company they use. Call them and
ask them what the monthly payments would be for subsidized and
unsubsidized loans totaling $120,000 at the current rates. The
combined monthly payment may be about $500/month. That's a real nice
car or personal airplane payment.

If'n it were me, I would tell my son to go to the State University and
pay the cheaper in-state tuition. Find a local FBO and a grey-haired
instructor and get the ratings there. Major in a degree that will
allow him to have a non-avaition related job/business if the air
carriers aren't hiring, he gets laid off, or he tires of crashpads and
long hours away from home.

My flight instructor was an ERAU graduate. He had about $150,000 in
school debt. He got a job out of school with a regional but was
quickly furloughed, hence the reason he was sitting right seat with me.
He got his degree in aviation management (or something like that),
which is not very cross-marketable. He was making $10-12/hr
instructing, with that massive debt and a wife and kid to support. How
he did it, i don't know.

wrote:
snip
If'n it were me, I would tell my son to go to the State University and
pay the cheaper in-state tuition. Find a local FBO and a grey-haired
instructor and get the ratings there.

Sorry, I have to make my standard disagreement that age does not make a
great instructor. My instructors were all under 30 and all but one did
a great job. I was 22 when I got my CFI, and while I have a lot to
learn, no one ever complained. Older does NOT always mean better and
it's a disservice to suggest that it does.

My flight instructor was an ERAU graduate. He had about $150,000 in
school debt. He got a job out of school with a regional but was
quickly furloughed, hence the reason he was sitting right seat with me.
He got his degree in aviation management (or something like that),
which is not very cross-marketable. He was making $10-12/hr
instructing, with that massive debt and a wife and kid to support. How
he did it, i don't know.

Food stamps, according to the guy who did most of my instrument. He was
an ERAU Prescott grad.

"Rachel" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
snip
If'n it were me, I would tell my son to go to the State University and
pay the cheaper in-state tuition. Find a local FBO and a grey-haired
instructor and get the ratings there.

Sorry, I have to make my standard disagreement that age does not make a
great instructor. My instructors were all under 30 and all but one did a
great job. I was 22 when I got my CFI, and while I have a lot to learn,
no one ever complained. Older does NOT always mean better and it's a
disservice to suggest that it does.

Hi Rachel;

I agree totally that high time isn't necessarily an indicator of high
quality in a CFI, or a normal pilot for that matter. You'll find the
qualities that make a fine teacher in any age bracket, and as well find
these qualities lacking in the same wide range. Some CFI's are wonderful
teachers right out of the box, and some unfortunately go through entire
careers doing and teaching the same things wrong over and over again with
little change.
It's easy to spot the gray haired instructors who are good, as they are
still deeply motivated by teaching and are engaged in a constant self
improvement program that lasts from the day they become CFI's to the day
they quit flying.
About the post you have just answered;
I could be totally misreading the poster's intent that you are addressing,
but when I read the post I didn't come away with any negative reaction. To
me it simply read in a context that pointed toward a more "generic approach"
as opposed to seeking the more formal approach indicated by the higher
educational route we've been discussing.
I'm quite frankly wowed by that figure of 42 grand a year. That seems
extremely high to me, but having been one of those "gray haired
instructors", I have to admit I'm not that well up on present college fees.
Considering all the factors being discussed in this thread, I would be
leaning heavily toward a general college education dealing with a marketable
major for today's professional environment and going the flying route as an
additional effort; then playing the post graduation market to see what
develops.
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote:

I agree totally that high time isn't necessarily an indicator of high
quality in a CFI, or a normal pilot for that matter. You'll find the
qualities that make a fine teacher in any age bracket, and as well find
these qualities lacking in the same wide range. Some CFI's are wonderful
teachers right out of the box, and some unfortunately go through entire
careers doing and teaching the same things wrong over and over again with
little change.

You (and a few others) seem to be assuming that gray-haired instructors have
been instructing for decades. Many took up instructing quite recently, after
retiring from other careers which have nothing to do with piloting. A CFI's pay
is OK if you're drawing a nice pension from AT&T.

That doesn't necessarily make one a poor instructor, but don't assume that age
means lots of experience as a CFI.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.