Where Is It? (Thermal-Optimization Software)

At a fellow pilot's suggestion, for over a year I've been using Glide
Navigator II's "tracks" feature to help center difficult thermals. It
doesn't tell me where the best lift is but it does help me visualize
the thermal and see where I am compared with the previous circles.

More sophisticated soaring navigation software actually marks areas of
stronger lift and may even offer recommendations: e.g., WinPilot Pro,
SeeYou Mobile, and possibly others. I've stuck with GNII not only
because I like it but also because I'm still running it on the old
gray-scale Compaq 1550 and don't have one of the newer varios/flight
computers that add airspeed and variometer data to the GPS sentences
going into the PDA.

I'll ignore the very real concern about whether this feature tends to
make pilots look outside the cockpit even less than they already do. In
my experience, those who commit this sin are the same pilots who fly
their flight computers right into the ground when they accidentally set
the arrival height to minus 500 ft.

My question is do these features work well in WinPilot, etc.? Is the
relative rate-of-climb information accurate; i.e., is the best lift
displayed in the right place? What about the suggestions to shift the
circle in a certain direction (e.g., the Themi device)?

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"

I have both the Themi and Winpilot Pro. When I'm not flying my glider into
the ground, I find that both of these devices generally work as advertised.
They most often agree with each other too - - though not always. Also, in a
compound thermal with several lift cores adjacent to one another, they are
of no help in suggesting that the glider move to a stronger area in the
complex, as may be suggested by looking at the overhead cloud structure.

The Themi has one advantage over WPP, it remembers where thermals are for
the return trip. And if you arrive at a different altitude the second time
around, it accounts for that too. That said, if I already had WinPilot Pro,
I wouldn't spend the money on a Themi unless I needed that unit's logger
function.

bumper
wrote in message
oups.com...
At a fellow pilot's suggestion, for over a year I've been using Glide
Navigator II's "tracks" feature to help center difficult thermals. It
doesn't tell me where the best lift is but it does help me visualize
the thermal and see where I am compared with the previous circles.

More sophisticated soaring navigation software actually marks areas of
stronger lift and may even offer recommendations: e.g., WinPilot Pro,
SeeYou Mobile, and possibly others. I've stuck with GNII not only
because I like it but also because I'm still running it on the old
gray-scale Compaq 1550 and don't have one of the newer varios/flight
computers that add airspeed and variometer data to the GPS sentences
going into the PDA.

I'll ignore the very real concern about whether this feature tends to
make pilots look outside the cockpit even less than they already do. In
my experience, those who commit this sin are the same pilots who fly
their flight computers right into the ground when they accidentally set
the arrival height to minus 500 ft.

My question is do these features work well in WinPilot, etc.? Is the
relative rate-of-climb information accurate; i.e., is the best lift
displayed in the right place? What about the suggestions to shift the
circle in a certain direction (e.g., the Themi device)?

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"

Hi,

I sell and support SeeYou Mobile. It also has what they call a "Thermal
Assistant" that is very much like the one found in WinPilot. It seems to
work well, but I have done only a little testing so far. The interesting
feature of the SeeYou Mobile Thermal Assistant is that it can be used with
any GPS. Of course, it will work best with a Cambridge 302, LX7007, LX1600,
Borgelt B50 or B500 that is sending it vario data, but it seems to work
quite well with my Cambridge 302A GPS flight recorder.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"bumper" wrote in message
...
I have both the Themi and Winpilot Pro. When I'm not flying my glider into
the ground, I find that both of these devices generally work as advertised.
They most often agree with each other too - - though not always. Also, in a
compound thermal with several lift cores adjacent to one another, they are
of no help in suggesting that the glider move to a stronger area in the
complex, as may be suggested by looking at the overhead cloud structure.

The Themi has one advantage over WPP, it remembers where thermals are for
the return trip. And if you arrive at a different altitude the second time
around, it accounts for that too. That said, if I already had WinPilot
Pro, I wouldn't spend the money on a Themi unless I needed that unit's
logger function.

bumper
wrote in message
oups.com...
At a fellow pilot's suggestion, for over a year I've been using Glide
Navigator II's "tracks" feature to help center difficult thermals. It
doesn't tell me where the best lift is but it does help me visualize
the thermal and see where I am compared with the previous circles.

More sophisticated soaring navigation software actually marks areas of
stronger lift and may even offer recommendations: e.g., WinPilot Pro,
SeeYou Mobile, and possibly others. I've stuck with GNII not only
because I like it but also because I'm still running it on the old
gray-scale Compaq 1550 and don't have one of the newer varios/flight
computers that add airspeed and variometer data to the GPS sentences
going into the PDA.

I'll ignore the very real concern about whether this feature tends to
make pilots look outside the cockpit even less than they already do. In
my experience, those who commit this sin are the same pilots who fly
their flight computers right into the ground when they accidentally set
the arrival height to minus 500 ft.

My question is do these features work well in WinPilot, etc.? Is the
relative rate-of-climb information accurate; i.e., is the best lift
displayed in the right place? What about the suggestions to shift the
circle in a certain direction (e.g., the Themi device)?

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"

Paul Remde wrote:
Hi,

I sell and support SeeYou Mobile. It also has what they call a "Thermal
Assistant" that is very much like the one found in WinPilot. It seems to
work well, but I have done only a little testing so far.

I've used the Thermal Assistant for about 15 flights. I can do a better
job when I'm paying attention, but it's an asset when I'm distracted
with other matters. These include looking for other gliders
(particularly if I've lost sight of them), retracting the propeller
after a launch, taking pictures of the scenery, consulting a sectional
chart, using the relief tube, talking on the radio, and so on.

It's not necessary to stare at the PDA, as I find a glance is sufficient
to see about where the maximum lift was in the circle. This gets me
"synchronized" with the thermal again.


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

Eric Greenwell wrote:
Paul Remde wrote:
Hi,

I sell and support SeeYou Mobile. It also has what they call a
"Thermal Assistant" that is very much like the one found in WinPilot.
It seems to work well, but I have done only a little testing so far.

I've used the Thermal Assistant for about 15 flights. I can do a better
job when I'm paying attention, but it's an asset when I'm distracted
with other matters. These include looking for other gliders
(particularly if I've lost sight of them), retracting the propeller
after a launch, taking pictures of the scenery, consulting a sectional
chart, using the relief tube, talking on the radio, and so on.

It's not necessary to stare at the PDA, as I find a glance is sufficient
to see about where the maximum lift was in the circle. This gets me
"synchronized" with the thermal again.

Same experience here. However, I've disabled the visual indicator and
rely merely on the audible tones it generates. That helps keep my head
out of the cockpit even more.

Jeremy

Eric Greenwell wrote:
Paul Remde wrote:
Hi,

I sell and support SeeYou Mobile. It also has what they call a
"Thermal Assistant" that is very much like the one found in WinPilot.
It seems to work well, but I have done only a little testing so far.

I've used the Thermal Assistant for about 15 flights. I can do a better
job when I'm paying attention, but it's an asset when I'm distracted
with other matters. These include looking for other gliders
(particularly if I've lost sight of them), retracting the propeller
after a launch, taking pictures of the scenery, consulting a sectional
chart, using the relief tube, talking on the radio, and so on.

It's not necessary to stare at the PDA, as I find a glance is sufficient
to see about where the maximum lift was in the circle. This gets me
"synchronized" with the thermal again.

Same experience here. However, I've disabled the visual indicator and
rely merely on the audible tones it generates. That helps keep my head
out of the cockpit even more.

Jeremy

Jeremy Zawodny wrote:
Eric Greenwell wrote:
Paul Remde wrote:
Hi,

I sell and support SeeYou Mobile. It also has what they call a
"Thermal Assistant" that is very much like the one found in
WinPilot. It seems to work well, but I have done only a little
testing so far.

I've used the Thermal Assistant for about 15 flights. I can do a
better job when I'm paying attention, but it's an asset when I'm
distracted with other matters. These include looking for other gliders
(particularly if I've lost sight of them), retracting the propeller
after a launch, taking pictures of the scenery, consulting a sectional
chart, using the relief tube, talking on the radio, and so on.

It's not necessary to stare at the PDA, as I find a glance is
sufficient to see about where the maximum lift was in the circle. This
gets me "synchronized" with the thermal again.

Same experience here. However, I've disabled the visual indicator and
rely merely on the audible tones it generates. That helps keep my head
out of the cockpit even more.

I'll have to try that. I've reset the Thermal Assistant parameters to
make it more sensitive, and to alert me when it's time to straighten out.


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

I sell and support SeeYou Mobile. It also has what they call a "Thermal
Assistant" that is very much like the one found in WinPilot. It seems to
work well, but I have done only a little testing so far. The interesting
feature of the SeeYou Mobile Thermal Assistant is that it can be used with
any GPS. Of course, it will work best with a Cambridge 302, LX7007, LX1600,
Borgelt B50 or B500 that is sending it vario data, but it seems to work
quite well with my Cambridge 302A GPS flight recorder.

Paul,

I assume in your case that SeeYou Mobile is calculating its own
rate-of-climb from changes in GPS altitude, including the effects of
any changes in airspeed (i.e., dives, zooms) as well as changes in lift
strength. As I understand it, the later variometer/flight computer
systems you mention add total energy climb rate to the GPS data stream
which is used by WinPilot, for example, to show where the best lift is.
If so, the latter approach should be more useful in optimizing climb
rate but the former approach has the advantage of not forcing me to buy
an expensive new vario/flight computer to replace my faithful LNAV. Do
you know if SeeYou Mobile also uses vario data when available and
defaults to GPS-derived climb data only when necessary?

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"

Hi,

SeeYou Mobile's Thermal Assistant will use the best vario data it can get.
If it can't get vario data it will use GPS altitude changes. Vario data is
much faster and more accurate of course. But it seems to work OK with GPS
only. I don't know whether it is using pressure altitude or GPS altitude
from my Cambridge 302A.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

wrote in message
ups.com...
I sell and support SeeYou Mobile. It also has what they call a "Thermal
Assistant" that is very much like the one found in WinPilot. It seems to
work well, but I have done only a little testing so far. The interesting
feature of the SeeYou Mobile Thermal Assistant is that it can be used
with
any GPS. Of course, it will work best with a Cambridge 302, LX7007,
LX1600,
Borgelt B50 or B500 that is sending it vario data, but it seems to work
quite well with my Cambridge 302A GPS flight recorder.

Paul,

I assume in your case that SeeYou Mobile is calculating its own
rate-of-climb from changes in GPS altitude, including the effects of
any changes in airspeed (i.e., dives, zooms) as well as changes in lift
strength. As I understand it, the later variometer/flight computer
systems you mention add total energy climb rate to the GPS data stream
which is used by WinPilot, for example, to show where the best lift is.
If so, the latter approach should be more useful in optimizing climb
rate but the former approach has the advantage of not forcing me to buy
an expensive new vario/flight computer to replace my faithful LNAV. Do
you know if SeeYou Mobile also uses vario data when available and
defaults to GPS-derived climb data only when necessary?

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"