The Comair crash reminds me...

Years ago I was leaving Purdue
http://www.airnav.com/airport/LAF
before the tower opened. (I think I was headed to Hamfest with some
friends. I don't usually get airborne that early.)

As I taxied to runway 5 I heard the local turboprop commuter (Mesaba, I
think) call a taxi to runway 10. I was headed away from him so I didn't
see him until I turned to do my runup. When I finished my runup I
realized that he had followed me. I thought about saying something but
just then a controller jumped in and vectored the plane to runway 10.

I always wondered what would have happened if that controller hadn't
gotten there early and said something (and I'd kept my mouth shut).
Would they have made it off the 4226' runway (5/23)? They regularly
fly in and out of 10/28 (6600') so I suspect that they could perform a
standard takeoff on 5 even though they might not handle an engine loss
as gracefully.

I wonder how often this (almost) happens.

--kyler

"Kyler Laird" wrote in message
news
Years ago I was leaving Purdue
http://www.airnav.com/airport/LAF
before the tower opened. (I think I was headed to Hamfest with some
friends. I don't usually get airborne that early.)

As I taxied to runway 5 I heard the local turboprop commuter (Mesaba, I
think) call a taxi to runway 10. I was headed away from him so I didn't
see him until I turned to do my runup. When I finished my runup I
realized that he had followed me. I thought about saying something but
just then a controller jumped in and vectored the plane to runway 10.

I always wondered what would have happened if that controller hadn't
gotten there early and said something (and I'd kept my mouth shut).
Would they have made it off the 4226' runway (5/23)? They regularly
fly in and out of 10/28 (6600') so I suspect that they could perform a
standard takeoff on 5 even though they might not handle an engine loss
as gracefully.

I wonder how often this (almost) happens.

--kyler

It can happen and has happened and will happen again as long as pilots don't
remember to physically check the runway heading by glancing at the DG or
HSI, or even the magnetic compass EVERY time they line up for takeoff. This
should be an automatic reflex action for a pilot, especially at busy
airports where runways are 30 degrees or less apart in direction.
Dudley Henriques

"Dudley Henriques" wrote:


It can happen and has happened and will happen again as long as pilots
don't remember to physically check the runway heading by glancing at
the DG or HSI, or even the magnetic compass EVERY time they line up
for takeoff. This should be an automatic reflex action for a pilot,
especially at busy airports where runways are 30 degrees or less apart
in direction. Dudley Henriques

It really makes you wonder about the procedures on that China Airlines 747
that not only took of from a taxiway in 2002, but the taxiway was not even
beside the assigned runway.

Many times it's something very small or something omitted in a sequence that
can cause these accidents. Something as basic as a heading check for the
right runway can be lost in a last minute conversation between two pilots as
the airplane makes the turn from the taxiway to the takeoff position; a
sudden distraction; a last second joke; anything that breaks a normal habit
pattern.
Its SO easy!!!!!!!
DH

"James Robinson" wrote in message
.. .
"Dudley Henriques" wrote:


It can happen and has happened and will happen again as long as pilots
don't remember to physically check the runway heading by glancing at
the DG or HSI, or even the magnetic compass EVERY time they line up
for takeoff. This should be an automatic reflex action for a pilot,
especially at busy airports where runways are 30 degrees or less apart
in direction. Dudley Henriques

It really makes you wonder about the procedures on that China Airlines 747
that not only took of from a taxiway in 2002, but the taxiway was not even
beside the assigned runway.

Many times it's something very small or something omitted in a sequence that
can cause these accidents. Something as basic as a heading check for the
right runway can be lost in a last minute conversation between two pilots as
the airplane makes the turn from the taxiway to the takeoff position; a
sudden distraction; a last second joke; anything that breaks a normal habit
pattern.
Its SO easy!!!!!!!

It is... and my understanding is that's the reason for the sterile
cockpit rule. Incidentally, there was an off-duty pilot sitting in the
jumpseat in the cockpit along for the ride on the Comair flight.
Wouldn't surprise me if things got a little too relaxed that early in
the morning for just a brief moment.

--
Guy

Guy Elden Jr wrote:
Many times it's something very small or something omitted in a sequence that
can cause these accidents. Something as basic as a heading check for the
right runway can be lost in a last minute conversation between two pilots as
the airplane makes the turn from the taxiway to the takeoff position; a
sudden distraction; a last second joke; anything that breaks a normal habit
pattern.
Its SO easy!!!!!!!

It is... and my understanding is that's the reason for the sterile
cockpit rule. Incidentally, there was an off-duty pilot sitting in the
jumpseat in the cockpit along for the ride on the Comair flight.
Wouldn't surprise me if things got a little too relaxed that early in
the morning for just a brief moment.

Plus it was a 0600 flight, which meant awakening at around 0430.
With a muggy motel room listening to countless AC units hum, I
wonder what their sleep situation was ??

JG


--
Guy

"Guy Elden Jr" wrote:

Incidentally, there was an off-duty pilot sitting in the
jumpseat in the cockpit along for the ride on the Comair flight.
Wouldn't surprise me if things got a little too relaxed that early in
the morning for just a brief moment.

The media reports have stated there was an off-duty pilot in the jumpseat,
but later reports say it was an AirTran pilot. I don't believe the
security rules, post 911, would allow him in the cockpit, so I suspect that
he was likely in the passenger compartment, and not in the jumpseat.

I took a freind up today and he asked how something like that can happen. My
answer was simple, their human.

Its SO easy!!!!!!!

It is... and my understanding is that's the reason for the sterile
cockpit rule. Incidentally, there was an off-duty pilot sitting in the
jumpseat in the cockpit along for the ride on the Comair flight.
Wouldn't surprise me if things got a little too relaxed that early in
the morning for just a brief moment.

--
Guy

"Dudley Henriques" writes:
It can happen and has happened and will happen again as long as pilots don't
remember to physically check the runway heading by glancing at the DG or
HSI, or even the magnetic compass EVERY time they line up for takeoff. This
should be an automatic reflex action for a pilot, especially at busy
airports where runways are 30 degrees or less apart in direction.

All of my training so far has been at an airport with only one runway
(KPAO). Thank you for pointing this out -- checking the runway
direction has not been on my checklist before now...

Chris

This is just one of those "little extras" that every pilot should include in
that last second look around the pit before opening the throttle. With me; I
always made it a point to hestiate for a few seconds for a line up re-check.
Dudley Henriques

"Christopher Brian Colohan" wrote in message
.. .
"Dudley Henriques" writes:
It can happen and has happened and will happen again as long as pilots
don't
remember to physically check the runway heading by glancing at the DG or
HSI, or even the magnetic compass EVERY time they line up for takeoff.
This
should be an automatic reflex action for a pilot, especially at busy
airports where runways are 30 degrees or less apart in direction.

All of my training so far has been at an airport with only one runway
(KPAO). Thank you for pointing this out -- checking the runway
direction has not been on my checklist before now...

Chris