Rotation

Do real aircraft abruptly pitch upward on take-off during rotation, or
is this an artifact of my simulator? I find that I must put the stick
forward slightly as soon as the nose rises, or I risk a tail strike.
This is especially true on small aircraft, such as the Baron 58.
Large jets seem to do the same thing, but at a slower speed. I am
curious as to whether real aircraft are the same way, and if so, what
the proper way is to rotate to minimize wild movements.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

No they don't.
MS Flightsim models are not very good.
you can buy models (try Realair) that perform as they should do.

Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:

Do real aircraft abruptly pitch upward on take-off during rotation, or
is this an artifact of my simulator? I find that I must put the stick
forward slightly as soon as the nose rises, or I risk a tail strike.
This is especially true on small aircraft, such as the Baron 58.
Large jets seem to do the same thing, but at a slower speed. I am
curious as to whether real aircraft are the same way, and if so, what
the proper way is to rotate to minimize wild movements.

Only if its out of trim. Make sure you are trimmed for take off and the
elevator is neurtral. Not sure how you do that in MSFS though, in a
real plane you let it go where it wants to go (which is based on the
trim).

-Robert

Mxsmanic wrote:
Do real aircraft abruptly pitch upward on take-off during rotation, or
is this an artifact of my simulator? I find that I must put the stick
forward slightly as soon as the nose rises, or I risk a tail strike.
This is especially true on small aircraft, such as the Baron 58.
Large jets seem to do the same thing, but at a slower speed. I am
curious as to whether real aircraft are the same way, and if so, what
the proper way is to rotate to minimize wild movements.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic,

I am
curious as to whether real aircraft are the same way, and if so, what
the proper way is to rotate to minimize wild movements.


Hey, it's a simulator, so it's gotta be just like real life. Same
thing. That's why you know all about flying, especially about IFR
flying.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

Do real aircraft abruptly pitch upward on take-off during rotation, or
is this an artifact of my simulator? I find that I must put the stick
forward slightly as soon as the nose rises, or I risk a tail strike.
This is especially true on small aircraft, such as the Baron 58.
Large jets seem to do the same thing, but at a slower speed. I am
curious as to whether real aircraft are the same way, and if so, what
the proper way is to rotate to minimize wild movements.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.


You may be rotating with too high velocity or out of trim.

Real airplanes are designed to be stable, both static and
dynamically. Simulators are designed to be less stable in
order to make the "student" work harder at the scan and
control inputs. A $10,000,000 full motion simulator [for a
$5,000,000 airplane] flight parameters are very close to a
real airplane as far as static and dynamic stability,
break-away forces and momentum.

Some real airplanes sit with the wing at a negative angle of
attack on the ground and must be rotated to a positive AOA
for take-off, perhaps to 15 degrees nose high for some jets.
This is a smooth but brisk pull, new pilots in type often
over-shoot the target rotation. Most light aircraft sit on
the ground at a positive AOA and will take-off with very
little elevator input if they are loaded and trimmed for
take-off.

The top of the line simulators can be made to fly just like
the real thing, because the software and hardware is top
line. Your desktop PC based training device uses consumer
grade mechanical parts.


"g n p" wrote in message
news:1157975462.625535@athnrd02...
|
| "Mxsmanic" wrote in message
| ...
|
| Do real aircraft abruptly pitch upward on take-off
during rotation, or
| is this an artifact of my simulator? I find that I must
put the stick
| forward slightly as soon as the nose rises, or I risk a
tail strike.
| This is especially true on small aircraft, such as the
Baron 58.
| Large jets seem to do the same thing, but at a slower
speed. I am
| curious as to whether real aircraft are the same way,
and if so, what
| the proper way is to rotate to minimize wild movements.
|
| --
| Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
|
|
| You may be rotating with too high velocity or out of trim.
|
|

Thomas Borchert wrote:
Mxsmanic,

I am
curious as to whether real aircraft are the same way, and if so, what
the proper way is to rotate to minimize wild movements.


Hey, it's a simulator, so it's gotta be just like real life. Same
thing. That's why you know all about flying, especially about IFR
flying.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

I understand where you're coming from, but simulators these days have
become quite true to life. I have used MSFS many times to teach stalls,
emergency procedures, aerodynamics, W+B issues, and especially IFR
procedures. For the most part, these programs simulate those things
(and many more) extremely well.

Anyways, whats with the trend around here amongst the "regulars" to be
so condescending when dealing with people of lesser knowledge? It's as
if these people are so desperate to show off their vast knowledge of
aviation, they'll resort to things like name-calling and sarcasm (the
easy way) before trying to explain their point of view intelligently
and reasonably (the hard way)...

Buttman,

Anyways, whats with the trend around here amongst the "regulars" to be
so condescending when dealing with people of lesser knowledge?


You have obviously missed the "Why don't voice radio communications use
FM?" thread, originated by mxsmanic.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Depends on where you have the trim set which is always a compromise. If the
trim is set so that there is no nose down trimming required after takeoff,
then it will take quite a bit of pull to get the aircraft to rotate and in
the initial climb. If the aircraft is trimmed so that only a moderate
amount of force is required to rotate then it will require pushing on the
yoke and retrimming after takeoff as the airplane accelerates.

The trim setting is correct for one speed and configuration (power and flap)
and since the airplane is accelerating, the trim is going to need to be
changed.

Mike
MU-2


"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Do real aircraft abruptly pitch upward on take-off during rotation, or
is this an artifact of my simulator? I find that I must put the stick
forward slightly as soon as the nose rises, or I risk a tail strike.
This is especially true on small aircraft, such as the Baron 58.
Large jets seem to do the same thing, but at a slower speed. I am
curious as to whether real aircraft are the same way, and if so, what
the proper way is to rotate to minimize wild movements.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mike Rapoport wrote:
Depends on where you have the trim set which is always a compromise. If the
trim is set so that there is no nose down trimming required after takeoff,
then it will take quite a bit of pull to get the aircraft to rotate and in
the initial climb. If the aircraft is trimmed so that only a moderate
amount of force is required to rotate then it will require pushing on the
yoke and retrimming after takeoff as the airplane accelerates.

The trim setting is correct for one speed and configuration (power and flap)
and since the airplane is accelerating, the trim is going to need to be
changed.

Mike,
I think trim is just academic is MSFS because there is no control
feedback. The OP is probably setting the elevator with too much back
pressure but doesn't know it because he doesn't have the feedback.
Honestly, if you asked me what position the yoke is in on take off, I
probably couldn't tell you. In real life we expect the yoke to go to
its trim position, something that doesn't make sense in a simulator
that does not have feedback controls.
-Roebrt