No more 100LL

I work for a fuel producer and it is looking more and more likely the
use of 100LL will be phased out in a few short years due to the
airlines wanting the control of all the airspace and air travel
industry, also I have noticed a large airplane manufacture retooling
for a change in engines on its single engine piston line. I think alot
of people may no be aware of this problem, but the writing is on the
wall jet fuel is here to stay and is much simpler to make and
transport.

thanks all, e-100

It would be great if the new engines ran on just air, then we could fly
all day for nothing! keep up the good work.

E-100 wrote:
I work for a fuel producer and it is looking more and more likely the
use of 100LL will be phased out in a few short years due to the
airlines wanting the control of all the airspace and air travel
industry, also I have noticed a large airplane manufacture retooling
for a change in engines on its single engine piston line. I think alot
of people may no be aware of this problem, but the writing is on the
wall jet fuel is here to stay and is much simpler to make and
transport.

thanks all, e-100

Seriously though, in several Europe countries, 100LL is almost impossible to
find. Especially around the mediteranean airports that offer it can
sometimes be far apart from each other.

i even heard a story from a friend and collegue in the IAOPA network about
him flying to Egypt and having phoned in advance to order 100LL.

Sure, no problem, but they did not have the fuel normally at the airport,
but they would make arrangments.

So, he arrives, and finds......three barrels of 100LL fuel....

No tools to open them, and no tools or pumps to get the 100LL into his plane
once he could open them.....

How he managed to get it onboard is another story.

So, my point is even though you guys in the US have cheap fuel as it is now,
things are not this good in other parts of the world, end cost and
environment issues are surfacing every day in the aviation community.

Thats why Thielert's diesel engines might be a success once they sort them
out and get approvals for installing into older planes. Jet A-1 is much
cheaper pr litre, and the engines use a lot less per hour.
Quite a big deal when AVGAS prices around here run as high as $3.50 per
Litre!!! (not gallon, but litre!)

The swedish company Hjelmco oild has for many years produced unleaded AVGAS
that work well on engines up to 180 hp. This might prove to be an
intermediate solution, but face it, AVGAS stands for a very ver minor
percent of the worlds total fuel consumption if you factor in JET fuel, car
fuels etc. I don't remember the figures, but its like the total yearly AVGAS
consume is a small percent of the car fuel that is lost to vapour in a
normal day across the world.

So it goes without saying that AVGAS is not necessarily a fuel that will
last forever.

My 2 cents.

(and I'm no troll)

Frode




It would be great if the new engines ran on just air, then we could fly
all day for nothing! keep up the good work.

E-100 wrote:
I work for a fuel producer and it is looking more and more likely the
use of 100LL will be phased out in a few short years due to the
airlines wanting the control of all the airspace and air travel
industry, also I have noticed a large airplane manufacture retooling
for a change in engines on its single engine piston line. I think alot
of people may no be aware of this problem, but the writing is on the
wall jet fuel is here to stay and is much simpler to make and
transport.

thanks all, e-100

No you're not a troll but the original poster dropped that little gem in
the newsgroup not to forment discussion (which isn't really the use of
the marketplace newsgroup anyway) but to see the shock value.

I'd love to see the Thielerts make it big and replace some of the
finicky 180hp lycoming. No mags? bonus!, lower fuel consumption?
bonus!, runs on Jet-A which is available almost anywhere? bonus!

Frode Berg wrote:
Seriously though, in several Europe countries, 100LL is almost impossible to
find. Especially around the mediteranean airports that offer it can
sometimes be far apart from each other.

i even heard a story from a friend and collegue in the IAOPA network about
him flying to Egypt and having phoned in advance to order 100LL.

Sure, no problem, but they did not have the fuel normally at the airport,
but they would make arrangments.

So, he arrives, and finds......three barrels of 100LL fuel....

No tools to open them, and no tools or pumps to get the 100LL into his plane
once he could open them.....

How he managed to get it onboard is another story.

So, my point is even though you guys in the US have cheap fuel as it is now,
things are not this good in other parts of the world, end cost and
environment issues are surfacing every day in the aviation community.

Thats why Thielert's diesel engines might be a success once they sort them
out and get approvals for installing into older planes. Jet A-1 is much
cheaper pr litre, and the engines use a lot less per hour.
Quite a big deal when AVGAS prices around here run as high as $3.50 per
Litre!!! (not gallon, but litre!)

The swedish company Hjelmco oild has for many years produced unleaded AVGAS
that work well on engines up to 180 hp. This might prove to be an
intermediate solution, but face it, AVGAS stands for a very ver minor
percent of the worlds total fuel consumption if you factor in JET fuel, car
fuels etc. I don't remember the figures, but its like the total yearly AVGAS
consume is a small percent of the car fuel that is lost to vapour in a
normal day across the world.

So it goes without saying that AVGAS is not necessarily a fuel that will
last forever.

My 2 cents.

(and I'm no troll)

Frode





It would be great if the new engines ran on just air, then we could fly
all day for nothing! keep up the good work.

E-100 wrote:

I work for a fuel producer and it is looking more and more likely the
use of 100LL will be phased out in a few short years due to the
airlines wanting the control of all the airspace and air travel
industry, also I have noticed a large airplane manufacture retooling
for a change in engines on its single engine piston line. I think alot
of people may no be aware of this problem, but the writing is on the
wall jet fuel is here to stay and is much simpler to make and
transport.

thanks all, e-100

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:20:12 GMT, Robert Chambers
wrote:

No you're not a troll but the original poster dropped that little gem in
the newsgroup not to forment discussion (which isn't really the use of
the marketplace newsgroup anyway) but to see the shock value.

I'd love to see the Thielerts make it big and replace some of the
finicky 180hp lycoming. No mags? bonus!, lower fuel consumption?
bonus!, runs on Jet-A which is available almost anywhere? bonus!

Where we really need those diesel engines is in the 260 to 360 HP
range where there really isn't a viable alternative to 100LL. The 180s
will run on car gas...if it isn't full of alcohol. Otherwise we'll
have to find alcohol free car gas and add lead substitutes (mix our
own brew) Depending on the weather I run 24 X 24 or even 25" over
2400 RPM to get 75%. Making the engine accept the much lower octane
car gas without the lubrication from the lead would result in
operational parameters that would certainly eliminate the short field
take off, and climb to altitude for IFR.

I'd even offer the Deb as a test bed for something in the 260 to 300
HP range (and I mean that sincerely) as long as I get to fly it. I'd
dearly love to add some new life to the old gal.

I think it'd be fitting for the oldest of its kind serve to test the
newest engines.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

A nice thing about the diesels is that the majority of diesel engines in
service these days are turbo. If Thielert is sharp about this they will
offer a decent turbo option which will give you sea level performance
all the way up. If they can do it in a relatively small package they
could give turbo-normalization to the masses.

We could call you Double D after the conversion.. Roger in his Diesel Deb.

Roger (K8RI) wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:20:12 GMT, Robert Chambers
wrote:


No you're not a troll but the original poster dropped that little gem in
the newsgroup not to forment discussion (which isn't really the use of
the marketplace newsgroup anyway) but to see the shock value.

I'd love to see the Thielerts make it big and replace some of the
finicky 180hp lycoming. No mags? bonus!, lower fuel consumption?
bonus!, runs on Jet-A which is available almost anywhere? bonus!


Where we really need those diesel engines is in the 260 to 360 HP
range where there really isn't a viable alternative to 100LL. The 180s
will run on car gas...if it isn't full of alcohol. Otherwise we'll
have to find alcohol free car gas and add lead substitutes (mix our
own brew) Depending on the weather I run 24 X 24 or even 25" over
2400 RPM to get 75%. Making the engine accept the much lower octane
car gas without the lubrication from the lead would result in
operational parameters that would certainly eliminate the short field
take off, and climb to altitude for IFR.

I'd even offer the Deb as a test bed for something in the 260 to 300
HP range (and I mean that sincerely) as long as I get to fly it. I'd
dearly love to add some new life to the old gal.

I think it'd be fitting for the oldest of its kind serve to test the
newest engines.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Robert Chambers wrote:
A nice thing about the diesels is that the majority of diesel engines in
service these days are turbo. If Thielert is sharp about this they will
offer a decent turbo option which will give you sea level performance
all the way up. If they can do it in a relatively small package they
could give turbo-normalization to the masses.

We could call you Double D after the conversion.. Roger in his Diesel Deb.

http://www.centurion-engines.com/

The Thielert engines are already turbo, they just don't make a big deal
about it.

The Centurion 1.7 135 HP and 4.0 350 HP are certified, the Centurion 3.2
230 HP is in work.

--
Jim Pennino

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