See and avoid...

An eye opener:
http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/new...s/bca0107c.xml

We are mentioned there as well:
"Most recently, a Hawker 800XP descending into Reno collided with a
Schleicher ASW-27 sailplane near Minden, Nev., a popular soaring
location. Somewhat miraculously the glider pilot managed to parachute
to safety and the crew of the damaged Hawker was able to execute a
single-engine, gear-up emergency landing at the nearby Carson City
Airport. Everybody walked away."

Ramy

Ramy wrote:
An eye opener:
http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/new...s/bca0107c.xml

It was reports such as this that contributed to the dream (of 15 or so
years ago) that a portable battery powered ADS-B unit suitable for
skydivers, gliders, ultralights etc, could be produced for under $1000.
Once the dream passed through the normal bureaucratic process ADS-B
was delayed over 20 years, will not be portable, and will cost more
than most pilots will be willing to pay.

Andy

Why has this dream passed, and why will ADS-B not be portable? This is the
type of project that the SAA along with other groups (Skydivers,
Ultralights, etc.) should be working on.

Mike Schumann

"Andy" wrote in message
oups.com...

Ramy wrote:
An eye opener:
http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/new...s/bca0107c.xml

It was reports such as this that contributed to the dream (of 15 or so
years ago) that a portable battery powered ADS-B unit suitable for
skydivers, gliders, ultralights etc, could be produced for under $1000.
Once the dream passed through the normal bureaucratic process ADS-B
was delayed over 20 years, will not be portable, and will cost more
than most pilots will be willing to pay.

Andy




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Ramy wrote:
An eye opener:
http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/new...s/bca0107c.xml

It was reports such as this that contributed to the dream (of 15 or so
years ago) that a portable battery powered ADS-B unit suitable for
skydivers, gliders, ultralights etc, could be produced for under $1000.
Once the dream passed through the normal bureaucratic process ADS-B
was delayed over 20 years, will not be portable, and will cost more
than most pilots will be willing to pay.

Andy


For several years there exists an ADS-B for small aircrafts, especially
gliders. The number of equiped gliders is skyrocketing in europe:
http://www.flarm.com/index_en.html


Andreas

Andreas, FLARM is "like" ADS-B, but it isn't ADS-B (although the
Australians have apparently extended their version to work with their
official ADS-B system). One hugh drawback to FLARM is that the
designers won't permit its use in the US. This has been discussed
before on this group.

-John

On Jan 27, 7:11 pm, Andreas Alin
wrote:
Ramy wrote:
An eye opener:
http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/new....jsp?id=news/b...

It was reports such as this that contributed to the dream (of 15 or so
years ago) that a portable battery powered ADS-B unit suitable for
skydivers, gliders, ultralights etc, could be produced for under $1000.
Once the dream passed through the normal bureaucratic process ADS-B
was delayed over 20 years, will not be portable, and will cost more
than most pilots will be willing to pay.

AndyFor several years there exists an ADS-B for small aircrafts, especially
gliders. The number of equiped gliders is skyrocketing in europe:http://www.flarm.com/index_en.html

Andreas

What prevents a US manufacture to produce a Flarm/ADS-B compatible
device, similar to what was done in Australia?

Ramy

On Jan 28, 6:00 am, "jcarlyle" wrote:
Andreas, FLARM is "like" ADS-B, but it isn't ADS-B (although the
Australians have apparently extended their version to work with their
official ADS-B system). One hugh drawback to FLARM is that the
designers won't permit its use in the US. This has been discussed
before on this group.

-John

On Jan 27, 7:11 pm, Andreas Alin



wrote:
Ramy wrote:
An eye opener:
http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/new....jsp?id=news/b...

It was reports such as this that contributed to the dream (of 15 or so
years ago) that a portable battery powered ADS-B unit suitable for
skydivers, gliders, ultralights etc, could be produced for under $1000.
Once the dream passed through the normal bureaucratic process ADS-B
was delayed over 20 years, will not be portable, and will cost more
than most pilots will be willing to pay.

AndyFor several years there exists an ADS-B for small aircrafts, especially
gliders. The number of equiped gliders is skyrocketing in europe:http://www.flarm.com/index_en.html

Andreas- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

IIRC, the Australians licensed the FLARM design from Flarm Technology
in Switzerland, and then they engineered in the ADS-B
compatibility.From what I've seen in the FLARM manual, a US
manufacturer wouldn't be able to negotiate a license from Flarm
Technology. A US manufacturer would have to start with a clean sheet
of paper, and engineer a FLARM compatible and ADS-B compatible
device.

However, according to the Flarm web site, there are potential
intellectual property infringements, such as the one that Flarm
avoided in France. I don't have detailed information on what other
potential infringements may exist. But those, and money, would prevent
a US manufacturer from offering such a device.

Got someone interested in doing it, Ramy?

-John

On Jan 28, 1:13 pm, "Ramy" wrote:
What prevents a US manufacture to produce a Flarm/ADS-B compatible
device, similar to what was done in Australia?

Ramy wrote:
What prevents a US manufacture to produce a Flarm/ADS-B compatible
device, similar to what was done in Australia?

It wouldn't have to be compatible, as no one will fly their glider from
the US to Europe or Australia. The very small number of motorgliders
that might make that trip can make arrangements to buy, borrow, or rent
one when they get there. Life is simpler if you don't need the
compatibility, and might made the FLARM folks sleep better at night, too.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

The Flarm operating manual version 3.05 (Jan 8th 2007)
http://www.flarm.com/support/manual/...ual_v3.05E.pdf
on page 12 of 12 states "Operation of FLARM is forbidden in the USA or
Canada or in aircraft registered in the USA or Canada."

The FOCA approved aircraft flight manual supplement
http://www.flarm.com/support/manual/...s_v1.00_en.pdf includes:
"Important Note:
Operation of FLARM is forbidden in aircraft in which one or more of the
occupants resides in or is a citizen of the USA or Canada. Likewise, use of
FLARM is forbidden if the aircraft concerned takes off from, makes an
intermediate or final landing in the USA or Canada"
(Swiss FOCA approved Date 14.03.06 Revision Original Page 3 of 9)

I have no idea why these restrictions are made, but I imagine that the North
American legal systems, liability laws and extradition rules have something
to do with it.

I believe that compatibility between OzFlarm and ADS-B is planned, but has
not happened yet.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.

"jcarlyle" wrote in message
ups.com...
Andreas, FLARM is "like" ADS-B, but it isn't ADS-B (although the
Australians have apparently extended their version to work with their
official ADS-B system). One hugh drawback to FLARM is that the
designers won't permit its use in the US. This has been discussed
before on this group.

-John

On Jan 27, 7:11 pm, Andreas Alin
wrote:
Ramy wrote:
An eye opener:
http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/new....jsp?id=news/b...

It was reports such as this that contributed to the dream (of 15 or so
years ago) that a portable battery powered ADS-B unit suitable for
skydivers, gliders, ultralights etc, could be produced for under $1000.
Once the dream passed through the normal bureaucratic process ADS-B
was delayed over 20 years, will not be portable, and will cost more
than most pilots will be willing to pay.

AndyFor several years there exists an ADS-B for small aircrafts,
especially
gliders. The number of equiped gliders is skyrocketing in
europe:http://www.flarm.com/index_en.html

Andreas

Too bad. Sounds like a clinical case of hyper paranoia.

Ramy

On Jan 28, 3:04 pm, "W.J. \(Bill\) Dean \(U.K.\)."
wrote:
The Flarm operating manual version 3.05 (Jan 8th 2007)http://www.flarm.com/support/manual/...ual_v3.05E.pdf
on page 12 of 12 states "Operation of FLARM is forbidden in the USA or
Canada or in aircraft registered in the USA or Canada."

The FOCA approved aircraft flight manual supplementhttp://www.flarm.com/support/manual/flarm_afms_v1.00_en.pdfincludes:
"Important Note:
Operation of FLARM is forbidden in aircraft in which one or more of the
occupants resides in or is a citizen of the USA or Canada. Likewise, use of
FLARM is forbidden if the aircraft concerned takes off from, makes an
intermediate or final landing in the USA or Canada"
(Swiss FOCA approved Date 14.03.06 Revision Original Page 3 of 9)

I have no idea why these restrictions are made, but I imagine that the North
American legal systems, liability laws and extradition rules have something
to do with it.

I believe that compatibility between OzFlarm and ADS-B is planned, but has
not happened yet.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.

"jcarlyle" wrote in oglegroups.com...



Andreas, FLARM is "like" ADS-B, but it isn't ADS-B (although the
Australians have apparently extended their version to work with their
official ADS-B system). One hugh drawback to FLARM is that the
designers won't permit its use in the US. This has been discussed
before on this group.

-John

On Jan 27, 7:11 pm, Andreas Alin
wrote:
Ramy wrote:
An eye opener:
http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/new....jsp?id=news/b...

It was reports such as this that contributed to the dream (of 15 or so
years ago) that a portable battery powered ADS-B unit suitable for
skydivers, gliders, ultralights etc, could be produced for under $1000.
Once the dream passed through the normal bureaucratic process ADS-B
was delayed over 20 years, will not be portable, and will cost more
than most pilots will be willing to pay.

AndyFor several years there exists an ADS-B for small aircrafts,
especially
gliders. The number of equiped gliders is skyrocketing in
europe:http://www.flarm.com/index_en.html

Andreas- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -