So There I Was...

....on my first post-engine inspection flight. The plan was to stay within
gliding distance of the field, "just in case", so I launched, made a wide
circle of the field, while climbing to 3,000' AGL. When on what was more or
less an extended crosswind, I made a descending 135 degree left turn and
called "Cartersville traffic, Experimental NXXX 2 miles southeast, inbound
on the 45 into the downwind for 19" (or something like that).

And the guy who'd been giving position reports from a different zip code
"NXXYY 30 miles North, inbound" responds on the radio and says "NXXYY is on
a 9 mile straight in, doing 180 knots". I look down and am clipping along
at 170 knots and am a mile from entering the downwind. That's very fast for
me in that relative position to the field, but I was dumping the altitude
I'd held in reserve since it was a post-maintenance flight. As I turn
downwind and announce, a C-172, which I know to be an instructor with
several students announces that he's departing and dawdles onto the runway.
So I extend for spacing from him and call my base turn.

Of course, the guy who was on the 180 knot straight in comes back with "You
understand there is an aircraft on short final"... I'd been looking for him,
and there he was, above my visual horizon, and on the other side of the 300'
hills that are a couple of miles North of the field. So I say "Yep", turn
final, and as I'm crossing the threshold, he announces "Meridian NXXYY is
going around".

Which leads to the age old question... Was there a better approach I should
have taken? My sense is that per the FAR's (altitude being the key factor),
I had precedence for landing. Also, my sense is that he was the one who was
smoking along all the way to short final and he could have meshed with the
existing traffic (me) if he'd pulled the throttle back a bit. Instead, he
probably burned an extra 5 gallons of Jet A on his go-around...

Yeah, I know... I'm hard headed too, but I don't see where flying a faster
airplane and calling a long, long, straight in approach means the other
aircraft in and around the field need to defer to you... Heck, my airplane
is faster than 90% of the GA fleet, and I'd never do that intentionally.

Oh, yeah. The post-maintenance flight went well. I had a surprising
experience once and that has made me pretty cautious on post-maintenance
flights.

KB

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
. ..
"NXXYY 30 miles North, inbound" responds on the radio and says "NXXYY is
on a 9 mile straight in, doing 180 knots".

Just thinking out loud here. Not trying to be a smart arse, and no, I've
never had this happen to me - yet!
At 180kts and 9 miles out, that means he'd be at the field in 3 minutes.
He's not in the pattern as such, so he can't see what's where. You're still
on downwind when he calls, so I'd have extended my downwind by a minute to
allow him through. Also, if you could see him a couple of miles to the North
when you turned base, at 180kts, he's on top of you in under a minute, so
it's obvious he's going to need to go around. Having said all that though,
you're right. If he pulled the throttle back a bit he could have saved
himself the go around.
Were any words exchanged once you were both on the ground?
Oz Lander

"Crash Lander" wrote in message
...
"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
. ..
"NXXYY 30 miles North, inbound" responds on the radio and says "NXXYY is
on a 9 mile straight in, doing 180 knots".

Just thinking out loud here. Not trying to be a smart arse, and no, I've
never had this happen to me - yet!
At 180kts and 9 miles out, that means he'd be at the field in 3 minutes.
He's not in the pattern as such, so he can't see what's where. You're
still on downwind when he calls, so I'd have extended my downwind by a
minute to allow him through. Also, if you could see him a couple of miles
to the North when you turned base, at 180kts, he's on top of you in under
a minute, so it's obvious he's going to need to go around. Having said all
that though, you're right. If he pulled the throttle back a bit he could
have saved himself the go around.
Were any words exchanged once you were both on the ground?
Oz Lander

Naah, no words, and I did several stop and go landings to conclude my
evening. I don't think the traffic conflict was a huge deal. It wasn't
like I was upset about the situation and he shouldn't have been either. I
just can't figure why he didn't try and blend into the light traffic. All
he had to do was pull the noise lever back a little. As far as extending my
pattern, you're right that it was an option. However, I was on a post
maintenance flight and wanted to stay close to the field, which meant I
didn't want to fly a big pattern. Also, I didn't think I needed to yield to
someone who didn't seem to be playing by the "rules of the road", whether
formal or informal.

Kyle Boatright wrote:
Naah, no words, and I did several stop and go landings to conclude my
evening. I don't think the traffic conflict was a huge deal. It wasn't
like I was upset about the situation and he shouldn't have been either. I
just can't figure why he didn't try and blend into the light traffic. All
he had to do was pull the noise lever back a little. As far as extending my
pattern, you're right that it was an option. However, I was on a post
maintenance flight and wanted to stay close to the field, which meant I
didn't want to fly a big pattern. Also, I didn't think I needed to yield to
someone who didn't seem to be playing by the "rules of the road", whether
formal or informal.


I don't see how he can claim any pattern rights from 9 miles out. He was taking
a chance and he knew it. Everybody who flies a long straight in knows he's
cheating a bit and may well get called on it and have to enter the pattern
properly after all.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...
Kyle Boatright wrote:
Naah, no words, and I did several stop and go landings to conclude my
evening. I don't think the traffic conflict was a huge deal. It wasn't
like I was upset about the situation and he shouldn't have been either.
I
just can't figure why he didn't try and blend into the light traffic.
All
he had to do was pull the noise lever back a little. As far as extending
my
pattern, you're right that it was an option. However, I was on a post
maintenance flight and wanted to stay close to the field, which meant I
didn't want to fly a big pattern. Also, I didn't think I needed to yield
to
someone who didn't seem to be playing by the "rules of the road", whether
formal or informal.


I don't see how he can claim any pattern rights from 9 miles out. He was
taking a chance and he knew it. Everybody who flies a long straight in
knows he's cheating a bit and may well get called on it and have to enter
the pattern properly after all.



I'm with you, Mort and Kyle both. Granted, sometimes you have to go above
and beyond the call in the interest of safety, but the guy was just wrong.
From a controlled field with clearance, a nine mile final can be considered
standard procedure. And if he was a jet, that's probably what led him to
make such an approach. But at an uncontrolled field that's nonsense. He
should have started adjusting, or making other plans when he hear Kyles
call. From nine miles out, he could have just as easily ran down upwind leg
and flown a full pattern.

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

Kyle Boatright wrote:

Naah, no words, and I did several stop and go landings to conclude my
evening. I don't think the traffic conflict was a huge deal. It wasn't
like I was upset about the situation and he shouldn't have been either. I
just can't figure why he didn't try and blend into the light traffic. All
he had to do was pull the noise lever back a little. As far as extending my
pattern, you're right that it was an option. However, I was on a post
maintenance flight and wanted to stay close to the field, which meant I
didn't want to fly a big pattern. Also, I didn't think I needed to yield to
someone who didn't seem to be playing by the "rules of the road", whether
formal or informal.



I don't see how he can claim any pattern rights from 9 miles out. He was taking
a chance and he knew it. Everybody who flies a long straight in knows he's
cheating a bit and may well get called on it and have to enter the pattern
properly after all.

It's a bit unclear whether KB could claim pattern
rights either. From the best I could understand,
he was descending from 3000 either in the 45 or
in the downwind. Call me a student, but what I've
been taught is that you fly the pattern at 1000
or you're not in it.

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
.. .
Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

Kyle Boatright wrote:

Naah, no words, and I did several stop and go landings to conclude my
evening. I don't think the traffic conflict was a huge deal. It wasn't
like I was upset about the situation and he shouldn't have been either.
I
just can't figure why he didn't try and blend into the light traffic.
All
he had to do was pull the noise lever back a little. As far as extending
my
pattern, you're right that it was an option. However, I was on a post
maintenance flight and wanted to stay close to the field, which meant I
didn't want to fly a big pattern. Also, I didn't think I needed to yield
to
someone who didn't seem to be playing by the "rules of the road", whether
formal or informal.



I don't see how he can claim any pattern rights from 9 miles out. He was
taking a chance and he knew it. Everybody who flies a long straight in
knows he's cheating a bit and may well get called on it and have to enter
the pattern properly after all.

It's a bit unclear whether KB could claim pattern
rights either. From the best I could understand,
he was descending from 3000 either in the 45 or
in the downwind. Call me a student, but what I've
been taught is that you fly the pattern at 1000
or you're not in it.

Before I made my 135 degree descending turn, I was at 3000' above sea level.
By the time I was inbound on the 2 mile 45 degree pattern entry, I was below
2,500' and descending pretty rapidly towards the pattern altitude of 1,800'.
That was when I made my initial call. By the time the other aircraft
responded, I was either at pattern altitude or very close...

KB

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
. ..
As far as extending my pattern, you're right that it was an option.
However, I was on a post maintenance flight and wanted to stay close to the
field, which meant I didn't want to fly a big pattern.

Fair enough too.

Also, I didn't think I needed to yield to someone who didn't seem to be
playing by the "rules of the road", whether formal or informal.

I never trust anyone to keep me safe but me. If he wants to push through, I
say let him, and live in the knowledge you've flown the safe flight. So what
if he gets down first. You've spent an extra precious minute doing what we
love most, and that's flying, not landing! ;-)
Oz Lander

On Apr 10, 11:15 pm, "Kyle Boatright" wrote:
"Crash Lander" wrote in message

...



"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...
"NXXYY 30 miles North, inbound" responds on the radio and says "NXXYY is
on a 9 mile straight in, doing 180 knots".

Just thinking out loud here. Not trying to be a smart arse, and no, I've
never had this happen to me - yet!
At 180kts and 9 miles out, that means he'd be at the field in 3 minutes.
He's not in the pattern as such, so he can't see what's where. You're
still on downwind when he calls, so I'd have extended my downwind by a
minute to allow him through. Also, if you could see him a couple of miles
to the North when you turned base, at 180kts, he's on top of you in under
a minute, so it's obvious he's going to need to go around. Having said all
that though, you're right. If he pulled the throttle back a bit he could
have saved himself the go around.
Were any words exchanged once you were both on the ground?
Oz Lander

Naah, no words, and I did several stop and go landings to conclude my
evening. I don't think the traffic conflict was a huge deal. It wasn't
like I was upset about the situation and he shouldn't have been either. I
just can't figure why he didn't try and blend into the light traffic. All
he had to do was pull the noise lever back a little. As far as extending my
pattern, you're right that it was an option. However, I was on a post
maintenance flight and wanted to stay close to the field, which meant I
didn't want to fly a big pattern. Also, I didn't think I needed to yield to
someone who didn't seem to be playing by the "rules of the road", whether
formal or informal.

Well, its been a few years since I've posted anything here, but I
gotta play devil's advocate here a bit.

You're on downwind, and see traffic on final. You then start your
base turn to cut him off and make him go around, even when you were
planning on doing pattern work? That's a pretty a**hole thing to do.
You could have extended your downwind by 30 seconds and he'd have been
past you, or done a left 270 to base and let him through.

When I was freight doggin' it, we'd often look for ways to save as
much time as we could, and often times it was much easier to land
straight in, than to fly overhead, then circle around, descend and
enter the pattern on the 45, especially when we could keep our speed
up the whole way down and scrub it all off on short final. On the
same note, if there was faster traffic on final it was easier for all
to extend by 30-45 seconds to let the faster guy just land; it's
called common courtesy.

The traffic pattern is no place to by playing chicken, which is
exactly what you did when you turned your base in front of faster
traffic, then continued to turn in front of overtaking traffic on
final, hoping he'd go around or slow down. Sometimes slipperier
airplanes can't just "slow down" as soon as somebody calls that
they're going sequence themselves first. In the Lear, we have to take
1 mile for every 10 knots we want to lose, until we get down to 180
and can start throwing the gear and flaps out. Unless we want to shake
the **** outta the guys in back with spoilers.

Just food for thought; the sky is no place to be playing the same "F-
U, it's MY turn!" games that go on in traffic every day.

Mike

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Apr 10, 11:15 pm, "Kyle Boatright" wrote:
"Crash Lander" wrote in message

...



"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...
"NXXYY 30 miles North, inbound" responds on the radio and says "NXXYY
is
on a 9 mile straight in, doing 180 knots".

Just thinking out loud here. Not trying to be a smart arse, and no,
I've
never had this happen to me - yet!
At 180kts and 9 miles out, that means he'd be at the field in 3
minutes.
He's not in the pattern as such, so he can't see what's where. You're
still on downwind when he calls, so I'd have extended my downwind by a
minute to allow him through. Also, if you could see him a couple of
miles
to the North when you turned base, at 180kts, he's on top of you in
under
a minute, so it's obvious he's going to need to go around. Having said
all
that though, you're right. If he pulled the throttle back a bit he
could
have saved himself the go around.
Were any words exchanged once you were both on the ground?
Oz Lander

Naah, no words, and I did several stop and go landings to conclude my
evening. I don't think the traffic conflict was a huge deal. It wasn't
like I was upset about the situation and he shouldn't have been either.
I
just can't figure why he didn't try and blend into the light traffic.
All
he had to do was pull the noise lever back a little. As far as extending
my
pattern, you're right that it was an option. However, I was on a post
maintenance flight and wanted to stay close to the field, which meant I
didn't want to fly a big pattern. Also, I didn't think I needed to yield
to
someone who didn't seem to be playing by the "rules of the road", whether
formal or informal.

Well, its been a few years since I've posted anything here, but I
gotta play devil's advocate here a bit.

You're on downwind, and see traffic on final. You then start your
base turn to cut him off and make him go around, even when you were
planning on doing pattern work?

Mike,

Your feedback is appreciated. Since I share an airfield with Phoenix Air,
I'm pretty familiar with freight operations. One thing I will say is that
the Phoenix guys do a pretty good job of blending with traffic, probably
because several of those guys fly cargo and instruct on the side. They
would probably end up cutting off their own students if they were aggressive
in the pattern.

Anyway, in this particular situation, I had no idea that the Meridian would
need to execute a go around. When he announced he was on "short final" he
was probably 2 miles beyond my base leg and had plenty of room to work with.

KB

That's a pretty a**hole thing to do.
You could have extended your downwind by 30 seconds and he'd have been
past you, or done a left 270 to base and let him through.

When I was freight doggin' it, we'd often look for ways to save as
much time as we could, and often times it was much easier to land
straight in, than to fly overhead, then circle around, descend and
enter the pattern on the 45, especially when we could keep our speed
up the whole way down and scrub it all off on short final. On the
same note, if there was faster traffic on final it was easier for all
to extend by 30-45 seconds to let the faster guy just land; it's
called common courtesy.

The traffic pattern is no place to by playing chicken, which is
exactly what you did when you turned your base in front of faster
traffic, then continued to turn in front of overtaking traffic on
final, hoping he'd go around or slow down. Sometimes slipperier
airplanes can't just "slow down" as soon as somebody calls that
they're going sequence themselves first. In the Lear, we have to take
1 mile for every 10 knots we want to lose, until we get down to 180
and can start throwing the gear and flaps out. Unless we want to shake
the **** outta the guys in back with spoilers.

Just food for thought; the sky is no place to be playing the same "F-
U, it's MY turn!" games that go on in traffic every day.

Mike