Can the V-22: bring back the Rotodyne!

The problems which have been experienced by the V-22 Osprey are a
reminder of one very successful alternative: the Fairey Rotodyne. See:
http://www.groenbros.com/tech/FaireyRotodyne.htm
This was a large, passenger gyrodyne which had a separate lift rotor
and two turboprops mounted on a short wing. For take-off and landing,
gas from the turboprops was diverted to jets at the tip of the lifting
rotor, providing the thrust to spin it. For level flight, the
turboprops drove conventional propellers with the autorotating rotor
providing about half the lift.

Disadvantages compared with the V-22? Separate systems for vertical
and level flight.

Advantages compared with the V-22? The lift rotor and propellers were
designed to be optimal for their tasks, instead of being a compromise.
The autorotating ability of the big lift rotor provided a safety
margin. And the whole thing was technically simple and trouble-free.
It WORKED - decades ago! Its only really problem was noise from the
tip-jets, but that would be far less of an issue for a military plane
and they were working on that anyway. It was only cancelled due to
political/industrial reasons.

The company whose website contains the info listed above is proposing
developing new gyrodynes by converting ewxisting fixed-wing planes -
notably, the C-130 Hercules! This seems like a much lower-risk
approach than tilt-rotors.

Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
Discussion forum at: http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/

Tony Williams wrote:

The problems which have been experienced by the V-22 Osprey are a
reminder of one very successful alternative: the Fairey Rotodyne. See:
http://www.groenbros.com/tech/FaireyRotodyne.htm
This was a large, passenger gyrodyne which had a separate lift rotor
and two turboprops mounted on a short wing. For take-off and landing,
gas from the turboprops was diverted to jets at the tip of the lifting
rotor, providing the thrust to spin it. For level flight, the
turboprops drove conventional propellers with the autorotating rotor
providing about half the lift.

Disadvantages compared with the V-22? Separate systems for vertical
and level flight.

Advantages compared with the V-22? The lift rotor and propellers were
designed to be optimal for their tasks, instead of being a compromise.
The autorotating ability of the big lift rotor provided a safety
margin. And the whole thing was technically simple and trouble-free.
It WORKED - decades ago! Its only really problem was noise from the
tip-jets, but that would be far less of an issue for a military plane
and they were working on that anyway.

Noise is rather a large issue for the military, if you're trying to sneak
up on people to prevent them from shooting at you. The V-22 is much
quieter than a helo when in fixed-wing mode, which means the other side
doesn't hear you coming several minutes in advance (on the rare occasions
that a Huey flies around in the area, despite my lousy hearing I can
usually be dressed and outside my house before it comes over).

It was only cancelled due to
political/industrial reasons.

The company whose website contains the info listed above is proposing
developing new gyrodynes by converting ewxisting fixed-wing planes -
notably, the C-130 Hercules! This seems like a much lower-risk
approach than tilt-rotors.

It will be interesting to see if they can get development money,
especially for something like the modified C-130 prototype, what the loss
in payload is and what maneuver restrictions are imposed by the large
rotor (below 1g I could definitely foresee problems). What's clear is
that the military wants their next tactical transport to be either
superstol or V/STOL, combined with roughly C-130 capabilities, so that
they don't have to capture an airfield as was the case with FOB Rhino in
Afghanistan. Conventional helos just aren't going to cut it. Piasecki is
working on compounds again (UH-60 or AH-64 prototype, I forget which)
under a DARPA project, and then Boeing, Bell, Lockheed and everyone else
are looking at the next step beyond the C-130/CH-53E as well as a
potential XC-14/15 type a/c, even if the acronym seems to change monthly.

Guy

Guy Alcala wrote in message ...

Noise is rather a large issue for the military, if you're trying to sneak
up on people to prevent them from shooting at you. The V-22 is much
quieter than a helo when in fixed-wing mode, which means the other side
doesn't hear you coming several minutes in advance (on the rare occasions
that a Huey flies around in the area, despite my lousy hearing I can
usually be dressed and outside my house before it comes over).

I'm not sure how much of a problem it would be in this case, as the
noise came from the tip-jets which were only lit up when the Rotodyne
was preparing to land. In level flight the rotor was just
autorotating. I don't know if this would produce any more noise than a
fixed-wing, but I suspect it would be much less than a helo.

Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
Military gun and ammunition discussion forum:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/

(Tony Williams) wrote in message om...
The problems which have been experienced by the V-22 Osprey are a
reminder of one very successful alternative: the Fairey Rotodyne. See:
http://www.groenbros.com/tech/FaireyRotodyne.htm
This was a large, passenger gyrodyne which had a separate lift rotor
and two turboprops mounted on a short wing. For take-off and landing,
gas from the turboprops was diverted to jets at the tip of the lifting
rotor, providing the thrust to spin it. For level flight, the
turboprops drove conventional propellers with the autorotating rotor
providing about half the lift.

Disadvantages compared with the V-22? Separate systems for vertical
and level flight.

Advantages compared with the V-22? The lift rotor and propellers were
designed to be optimal for their tasks, instead of being a compromise.
The autorotating ability of the big lift rotor provided a safety
margin. And the whole thing was technically simple and trouble-free.
It WORKED - decades ago! Its only really problem was noise from the
tip-jets, but that would be far less of an issue for a military plane
and they were working on that anyway. It was only cancelled due to
political/industrial reasons.

The company whose website contains the info listed above is proposing
developing new gyrodynes by converting ewxisting fixed-wing planes -
notably, the C-130 Hercules! This seems like a much lower-risk
approach than tilt-rotors.

Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
Discussion forum at: http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/



There was an extensive article on this in a recent air international.

These rotadynes essentialy use compressed air from the main engines
to drive tip jets in the rotor. The tip jets, in order to keep the
compressed air requirements low and hover ability high are not cold
tip jets but burn fuel to boost thrust.

The advantages are that no complicated highly stressed mechanical
componenets are required. The stresses are so low that existing air
farmes can be used eg a C130.

The Fariy Rotadyne worked but had 3 problems: two technical and one
political.

One the engines were underpowered and not in production, two the tip
jet noise was enormous (but Fairy engineers thoutht they were about to
crack that problem) and finaly polictical. The British government cut
its development.

Unlike the V22 there were no lethal accidents. Transition from hover
to flight and back again is seemless and requires not complicated and
dangerous change of modes.

In article , Tony
Williams writes
The problems which have been experienced by the V-22 Osprey are a
reminder of one very successful alternative: the Fairey Rotodyne. See:
http://www.groenbros.com/tech/FaireyRotodyne.htm

Very good link, makes you want to cringe at the opportunity that was
missed. Possibly one of the biggest in the history of aviation, and
destroyed not due to technical problems but political interfering. What
a mess and a bloody shame!

I'd forgotten they just broke it up, presumably so they could forget
about it and pretend it never happened.

--
John