Not 1, but 2 reports

2 reports on the evening news today (Boston area) on small plane
crashes. A C172M crashed at Mansfield, Ma. 4 people on board, 2
fatalities. This was on Saturday, a day that produced record high
temperatures for the area. Density altitude/overloading problem?

Then we had a C150 emergency land on Route 3. Ran out of gas. No
injuries, no damage. Tied up traffic though.

Incident 2 was certainly avoidable, incident 1 was most likely as well.

We're the stewards of GA's reputation. Take care out there. Being sloppy
is not only dangerous but it injures all of us. Preaching to the choir...

KC

In article ,
Kevin Clarke wrote:

2 reports on the evening news today (Boston area) on small plane
crashes. A C172M crashed at Mansfield, Ma. 4 people on board, 2
fatalities. This was on Saturday, a day that produced record high
temperatures for the area. Density altitude/overloading problem?

The 95 degrees only put the DA near 2500'. Assuming they weren't
using the 2200' turf runway, shouldn't 3500' have been enough runway
for a properly loaded/properly functioning 172M?

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

Bob Noel wrote:
In article ,
Kevin Clarke wrote:


2 reports on the evening news today (Boston area) on small plane
crashes. A C172M crashed at Mansfield, Ma. 4 people on board, 2
fatalities. This was on Saturday, a day that produced record high
temperatures for the area. Density altitude/overloading problem?


The 95 degrees only put the DA near 2500'. Assuming they weren't
using the 2200' turf runway, shouldn't 3500' have been enough runway
for a properly loaded/properly functioning 172M?


From reports, they got airborne, so the runway length wasn't the issue.
Their climbout would have been reduced due to weight and higher than
normal DA. I'm guessing a stall on climbout with a higher gross weight
and a CG aft of "normal". The pilot couldn't recover. Like I said,
guessing. There is no NTSB report yet, obviously. Either way, it is sad.

KC

On Sep 9, 7:33 pm, Kevin Clarke wrote:
Bob Noel wrote:
In article ,
Kevin Clarke wrote:

2 reports on the evening news today (Boston area) on small plane
crashes. A C172M crashed at Mansfield, Ma. 4 people on board, 2
fatalities. This was on Saturday, a day that produced record high
temperatures for the area. Density altitude/overloading problem?

The 95 degrees only put the DA near 2500'. Assuming they weren't
using the 2200' turf runway, shouldn't 3500' have been enough runway
for a properly loaded/properly functioning 172M?

From reports, they got airborne, so the runway length wasn't the issue.
Their climbout would have been reduced due to weight and higher than
normal DA. I'm guessing a stall on climbout with a higher gross weight
and a CG aft of "normal". The pilot couldn't recover. Like I said,
guessing. There is no NTSB report yet, obviously. Either way, it is sad.

KC


Four, 30 somethings males + 4 sets of golf clubs (off to play on the
Cape) + 90+F + humidity + ? in a 172M. EAA fly in going on at the
time so lots of good witnesses. Pilot made a radio call that he could
not clear the trees and was turning back - this was followed by stall/
spin. Very tragic in that there were several accounts that he could
have indeed cleared the trees if he would have continued, also tragic
that so many members of the general public witnessed this as the fly-
in is a popular local event. jeff

wrote in news:1189382647.136590.257600
@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:

Four, 30 somethings males + 4 sets of golf clubs (off to play on the
Cape) + 90+F + humidity + ? in a 172M. EAA fly in going on at the
time so lots of good witnesses. Pilot made a radio call that he could
not clear the trees and was turning back - this was followed by stall/
spin. Very tragic in that there were several accounts that he could
have indeed cleared the trees if he would have continued, also tragic
that so many members of the general public witnessed this as the fly-
in is a popular local event. jeff


How much, exactly, did each of the 30-something males weigh?

How much fuel was aboard the plane?



I think it is best to reserve judgement until all the facts are available.

On Sep 9, 9:54 pm, Judah wrote:
wrote in news:1189382647.136590.257600
@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:

Four, 30 somethings males + 4 sets of golf clubs (off to play on the
Cape) + 90+F + humidity + ? in a 172M. EAA fly in going on at the
time so lots of good witnesses. Pilot made a radio call that he could
not clear the trees and was turning back - this was followed by stall/
spin. Very tragic in that there were several accounts that he could
have indeed cleared the trees if he would have continued, also tragic
that so many members of the general public witnessed this as the fly-
in is a popular local event. jeff

How much, exactly, did each of the 30-something males weigh?

How much fuel was aboard the plane?

I think it is best to reserve judgement until all the facts are available.

Sorry you read a judgment somewhere, please re-read - just stating
facts as reported and expressing the tragedy of the scene - I happened
to be there and I am based there. Fly safe.

In article ,
Judah wrote:
wrote in news:1189382647.136590.257600
:

Four, 30 somethings males + 4 sets of golf clubs (off to play on the
Cape) + 90+F + humidity + ? in a 172M. EAA fly in going on at the

How much, exactly, did each of the 30-something males weigh?

How much fuel was aboard the plane?

Using FAA standard 170 pound passengers, 50 pounds for the golf
clubs (probably way low) and just 20 gallons of fuel, and the W&B
numbers from a 172M I'm familiar with, I calculate the weight to
be just over MGTW, and the CG to be towards the aft end of the
envelope.

Even if the passengers where FAA standard 170 pounders, the golf
clubs likely weighed more, and there was likely more then the bare
minimum of fuel on board.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

"Judah" wrote in message

How much, exactly, did each of the 30-something males weigh?

How much fuel was aboard the plane?



I think it is best to reserve judgement until all the facts are available.

Yup. Good advice. Don't even think about what can go wrong. Wait until
everyone forgets about it and someday just read through the NTSB final
reports.

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 19:22:13 -0400, Bob Noel
wrote:

The 95 degrees only put the DA near 2500'. Assuming they weren't
using the 2200' turf runway, shouldn't 3500' have been enough runway
for a properly loaded/properly functioning 172M?

News reports state 4 mid-30's male occupants were aboard and "at least
2 golf bags" were in the wreckage. Rented airplane from Maine, pilot
has had his ticket around a year.

I read a quote from a pilot witness who was attending an EAA fly-in
who thought that the plane took a long time to gain speed, although
the engine sounded fine, and failed to gain much altitude, then
turned, stalled, and went straight in. The photos are awful, and
bear out the straight-in reports.

Another report I read stated that the pilot made a mayday call that he
couldn't "clear the trees", and was turning back to the field.

Apparently, the plane arrived in Mansfield with three aboard, and the
forth (maybe with a golf bag?) boarded there, for trip over to Cape
Cod for a golf trip. Since most courses worth flying to usually don't
allow sharing clubs, you have to wonder if the plane had four guys and
four golf bags. Mansfield is a 30 minute or so hop to pretty much
anywhere on the Cape with an airport, so he wouldn't have needed lots
of fuel.

On a side note, Skylune might live in that area...

On Sep 9, 6:22 pm, Kevin Clarke wrote:
2 reports on the evening news today (Boston area) on small plane
crashes. [...]

Then we had a C150 emergency land on Route 3. Ran out of gas. No
injuries, no damage. Tied up traffic though.

Just saw a news report. Apparently, he took off from ME, ran into some
weather in NH, landed, then took off again. His destination was
Hopedale.

Route 3 can be a fairly dense with traffic, so it was a good thing it
wasn't on a weekday, say during rush hour. They said he touched down
in the Tyngsboro area. It must have been quite the site to be driving
in a car.

[...]

Regards,
Jon