Aerobatics books (Bertie, Dudley)

I was reading Bertie & Dudley's analysis of some low level aerobatics
gone bad. They used a fair amount of terminology I wasn't familiar
with.

What are the classic books on aerobatics?

wrote in news:17140127-0137-4b3a-b6ee-
:

I was reading Bertie & Dudley's analysis of some low level aerobatics
gone bad. They used a fair amount of terminology I wasn't familiar
with.

What are the classic books on aerobatics?


"Roll around a point", by Duane Cole, Sort of -THE- "My first little
aerobatic book" An excellent primer

"Conquest of lines and symmetry", also by Duane Cole. For instructors,
reall, but lots of good stuff there.

"Aerobatics" by Neil Williams. Superb book that goes into it in some
depth. The terminology is British but that makes little diffeence. Snap
rolls, for instance, are flick rolls in the UK. Hammerheads are stall
turns and so on but the descriptions of how to accomplish the manuevers
are very good, The Cole books are better to begin with, though.
(You don't want to overthink the manuevers while you're trying to do
them)

Kershner has one too, but I've never read it. His other books are good,
though so I can't see this one being bad.

"Hal Krier's Modern aerobatic and precision flying" or something like
that. I have it somewhere. It's a bit like the Cole books.

I have an old WW2 navy manual that's very good as well, though the
terminology is a bit different", shall we say?


All of these are out of print AFAIK except the Neil Williams book, and
mayb ethe Kershner one

Wiliams book is worth buying just for his account of how he landed a
Zlin 526 with a broken wing spar that only allowed him to fly inverted!
Absolutely awe inspiring stuff.


Bertie

Sounds like a lot of interesting material even for the casual pilot..
BTW, is there a reason why there is no separate aerobatics rating for
pilots? How do I judge if an aerobatics pilot is experienced or not?

On Dec 2, 1:40 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:17140127-0137-4b3a-b6ee-
:

I was reading Bertie & Dudley's analysis of some low level aerobatics
gone bad. They used a fair amount of terminology I wasn't familiar
with.

What are the classic books on aerobatics?

"Roll around a point", by Duane Cole, Sort of -THE- "My first little
aerobatic book" An excellent primer

"Conquest of lines and symmetry", also by Duane Cole. For instructors,
reall, but lots of good stuff there.

"Aerobatics" by Neil Williams. Superb book that goes into it in some
depth. The terminology is British but that makes little diffeence. Snap
rolls, for instance, are flick rolls in the UK. Hammerheads are stall
turns and so on but the descriptions of how to accomplish the manuevers
are very good, The Cole books are better to begin with, though.
(You don't want to overthink the manuevers while you're trying to do
them)

Kershner has one too, but I've never read it. His other books are good,
though so I can't see this one being bad.

"Hal Krier's Modern aerobatic and precision flying" or something like
that. I have it somewhere. It's a bit like the Cole books.

I have an old WW2 navy manual that's very good as well, though the
terminology is a bit different", shall we say?

All of these are out of print AFAIK except the Neil Williams book, and
mayb ethe Kershner one

Wiliams book is worth buying just for his account of how he landed a
Zlin 526 with a broken wing spar that only allowed him to fly inverted!
Absolutely awe inspiring stuff.

Bertie

schrieb:

Sounds like a lot of interesting material even for the casual pilot..
BTW, is there a reason why there is no separate aerobatics rating for
pilots? How do I judge if an aerobatics pilot is experienced or not?

In many countries there is, and for a good reason, IMHO. You really can
kill yourself if you try to figure out by yourself how to roll a plane.

wrote in news:49526e29-d68a-4385-b170-b17a478ebf08
@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com:

Sounds like a lot of interesting material even for the casual pilot..
BTW, is there a reason why there is no separate aerobatics rating for
pilots? How do I judge if an aerobatics pilot is experienced or not?


Good question and a difficult one too!

By reputation, really. Ask around.

Bertie

On Dec 2, 10:15 pm, wrote:
Sounds like a lot of interesting material even for the casual pilot..
BTW, is there a reason why there is no separate aerobatics rating for
pilots?

There sort of is in that a CFI can get an endorsement in Aerobatics.

My instructor has one of those.

In that way you could look for an instructor who has been endorsed by
the FAA (at some level) to teach aerobatics.

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Wiliams book is worth buying just for his account of how he landed a
Zlin 526 with a broken wing spar that only allowed him to fly inverted!
Absolutely awe inspiring stuff.

Bertie

http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/repeats...ng_failure.htm

JEEEEZUS....Friggin' steel cojones

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200712/1

"Kloudy via AviationKB.com" u33403@uwe wrote in news:7c25cff70aaec@uwe:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Wiliams book is worth buying just for his account of how he landed a
Zlin 526 with a broken wing spar that only allowed him to fly inverted!
Absolutely awe inspiring stuff.

Bertie

http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/repeats...ng_failure.htm

JEEEEZUS....Friggin' steel cojones


Yeah, he had very little choice. That's some bit of flying, too. Imagine,
an outside barrel roll, maintainting negative G the whole way and having to
put it down at exactly the moment you ran out of manuever and altitude
simultaneously.
Mindblowing.


Bertie

http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/repeats...ng_failure.htm

JEEEEZUS....Friggin' steel cojones

Yeah, he had very little choice. That's some bit of flying, too. Imagine,
an outside barrel roll, maintainting negative G the whole way and having to
put it down at exactly the moment you ran out of manuever and altitude
simultaneously.
Mindblowing.


Steel cojones -- no choice. But someone without steel down there might
have just let go of the stick and died. (What's that psych problem,
"resignation"? Williams had nothing but antidote for that.)

The sheer presence of mind to think about a previous incident and
REALIZING that it was the same problem but inverted, and doing that in
a matter of seconds and rolling over to save your azz, and all the
other stuff -- Mindblowing.

Gives you hope if you're knocked upside down on short final by wake
turbulence -- hell it makes that seem like a relatively small
problem!!!

wrote in
:

http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/repeats...ng_failure.htm

JEEEEZUS....Friggin' steel cojones

Yeah, he had very little choice. That's some bit of flying, too.
Imagine, an outside barrel roll, maintainting negative G the whole
way and having to put it down at exactly the moment you ran out of
manuever and altitude simultaneously.
Mindblowing.


Steel cojones -- no choice. But someone without steel down there might
have just let go of the stick and died. (What's that psych problem,
"resignation"? Williams had nothing but antidote for that.)

The sheer presence of mind to think about a previous incident and
REALIZING that it was the same problem but inverted, and doing that in
a matter of seconds and rolling over to save your azz, and all the
other stuff -- Mindblowing.

Gives you hope if you're knocked upside down on short final by wake
turbulence -- hell it makes that seem like a relatively small
problem!!!



It is a relatively small problem if you've had any aerobatic training
and you have a bit of altitude.
Unless you cross it at a right angle and it's fresh and you're going
fast enough to do some damage.

This all asumes a light plane and something large enough to upset you
badly, say something over 25,000 lbs, though anything will give you some
lumps if you get close enough.

If you're flying parallel, more or less, to the other aircraft, what's
going to happen is you're going to roll and you're going to roll very
quickly. This roll will be smooth but extemly fast.
Unless your own airplane has a fantastic roll rate, you're going to be
on your back and nose down and probably out of the wake before you even
know what's happened.
The vortice is relatively smooth, as is the resultant roll, but it's
action is extremely strong, so the best course out of it is to allow it
to eject you this way (it's not like you get a choice here, BTW) and
then recover from the resulting upset in the most convienient fashion.
e.g, roll or split S out of it.
If you are very close to the ground when this happens, you're probably
screwed.
BTW, I'm not even remotely suggesting anyone be cavalier about these
things. They're strong and will roll you over every time and can bust
your airplane on the spot (this is unlikely, unless you're flying lawn
furniture).
I'm assuming an accidental encounter between a large wake and a smaller
aircraft. They do happen. If it happens too low for a recovery you've
ignored all the info that's out there about avoidance. In other words,
you've flown into one from a preceding aircraft taking off or landing.




Bertie