Deferrals: MEL (Minimum Equipment List) and POH For Cessna 172N '78

Hello-

I am a student pilot getting studying for my checkride. One question
that I want to get right is the issue mentioned in the subject header
above.

My instructor said that because we do not have a MEL, we use the POH
and anything that is considered Optional but is defective can be
deferred and the flight could be made. There are three ohter
designations in the Equipment list, "A" for additional, "S" for
substitiuded and "R" for required. I would think that the "A" stuff
probably could be deffered as well (ie AC equipment, autopilot, etc).

I am a bit unclear and wanted some clarification on this from the
group. Does this mean to refer to the equip list in the POH and
anything with the letter "O" or optional that is defective can be
deferred and the flight can be continued? Or can the stuff "A" and "O"
be deferred.

Thanks
SD.

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 13:29:53 -0700 (PDT), Sushidot
wrote:

Hello-

I am a student pilot getting studying for my checkride. One question
that I want to get right is the issue mentioned in the subject header
above.

My instructor said that because we do not have a MEL, we use the POH
and anything that is considered Optional but is defective can be
deferred and the flight could be made. There are three ohter
designations in the Equipment list, "A" for additional, "S" for
substitiuded and "R" for required. I would think that the "A" stuff
probably could be deffered as well (ie AC equipment, autopilot, etc).

I am a bit unclear and wanted some clarification on this from the
group. Does this mean to refer to the equip list in the POH and
anything with the letter "O" or optional that is defective can be
deferred and the flight can be continued? Or can the stuff "A" and "O"
be deferred.

Anything that is not R in the equipment list or required by the rules
the flight will be conducted under (day/VFR, night/IFR, whatever) can
be dispatched when broken in the absense of a KOEL (Kind of Operation
Equipment List) or MEL (FAA approved Minimum Equipment List).

For example the co-pilot seat is S (Standard), pilot seat is R
(Required), so as long as nobody is in the seat (or it's removed from
the aircraft) the copilot seat is not needed.

Don't forget about marking the defective equipment as such,
deactivating or removing it from the aircraft, and making an
appropriate mainteance log entry (see 91.213(3)). Weight and ballance
may change if you are removing the defective part.

On Mar 23, 2:31 pm, Peter Clark
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 13:29:53 -0700 (PDT), Sushidot



wrote:
Hello-

I am a student pilot getting studying for my checkride. One question
that I want to get right is the issue mentioned in the subject header
above.

My instructor said that because we do not have a MEL, we use the POH
and anything that is considered Optional but is defective can be
deferred and the flight could be made. There are three ohter
designations in the Equipment list, "A" for additional, "S" for
substitiuded and "R" for required. I would think that the "A" stuff
probably could be deffered as well (ie AC equipment, autopilot, etc).

I am a bit unclear and wanted some clarification on this from the
group. Does this mean to refer to the equip list in the POH and
anything with the letter "O" or optional that is defective can be
deferred and the flight can be continued? Or can the stuff "A" and "O"
be deferred.

Anything that is not R in the equipment list or required by the rules
the flight will be conducted under (day/VFR, night/IFR, whatever) can
be dispatched when broken in the absense of a KOEL (Kind of Operation
Equipment List) or MEL (FAA approved Minimum Equipment List).

For example the co-pilot seat is S (Standard), pilot seat is R
(Required), so as long as nobody is in the seat (or it's removed from
the aircraft) the copilot seat is not needed.

Don't forget about marking the defective equipment as such,
deactivating or removing it from the aircraft, and making an
appropriate mainteance log entry (see 91.213(3)). Weight and ballance
may change if you are removing the defective part.

Thank you for the Reply...

This may be a dumb question, but what exactly is a KOEL? I came
across this term twice and sorta assume its the equipment list in the
POH...is that true or is it an additional list issued by the
manufacturer ?

Thanks
SD

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:21:21 -0700 (PDT), Sushidot
wrote:

On Mar 23, 2:31 pm, Peter Clark
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 13:29:53 -0700 (PDT), Sushidot



wrote:
Hello-

I am a student pilot getting studying for my checkride. One question
that I want to get right is the issue mentioned in the subject header
above.

My instructor said that because we do not have a MEL, we use the POH
and anything that is considered Optional but is defective can be
deferred and the flight could be made. There are three ohter
designations in the Equipment list, "A" for additional, "S" for
substitiuded and "R" for required. I would think that the "A" stuff
probably could be deffered as well (ie AC equipment, autopilot, etc).

I am a bit unclear and wanted some clarification on this from the
group. Does this mean to refer to the equip list in the POH and
anything with the letter "O" or optional that is defective can be
deferred and the flight can be continued? Or can the stuff "A" and "O"
be deferred.

Anything that is not R in the equipment list or required by the rules
the flight will be conducted under (day/VFR, night/IFR, whatever) can
be dispatched when broken in the absense of a KOEL (Kind of Operation
Equipment List) or MEL (FAA approved Minimum Equipment List).

For example the co-pilot seat is S (Standard), pilot seat is R
(Required), so as long as nobody is in the seat (or it's removed from
the aircraft) the copilot seat is not needed.

Don't forget about marking the defective equipment as such,
deactivating or removing it from the aircraft, and making an
appropriate mainteance log entry (see 91.213(3)). Weight and ballance
may change if you are removing the defective part.

Thank you for the Reply...

This may be a dumb question, but what exactly is a KOEL? I came
across this term twice and sorta assume its the equipment list in the
POH...is that true or is it an additional list issued by the
manufacturer ?

A KOEL (Kind of Operation Equipment List) is an additional list in the
POH's Limitations section which shows equipment required per flight
rules in a tabular form. I've seen it in the new G1000 Cessna POHs,
as well as the Malibu and Meridian, I'm sure there are others. With
no MEL you go there first and if the equipment isn't listed there then
you go to the equipment list. For exaple, the Malibu has two vaccum
pumps, per the KOEL you can dispatch for VFR/IFR with one operational,
but you need both operational for flight into icing (since the pumps
also operate the de-ice boots).

On Mar 24, 7:01 am, Peter Clark
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:21:21 -0700 (PDT), Sushidot



wrote:
On Mar 23, 2:31 pm, Peter Clark
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 13:29:53 -0700 (PDT), Sushidot

wrote:
Hello-

I am a student pilot getting studying for my checkride. One question
that I want to get right is the issue mentioned in the subject header
above.

My instructor said that because we do not have a MEL, we use the POH
and anything that is considered Optional but is defective can be
deferred and the flight could be made. There are three ohter
designations in the Equipment list, "A" for additional, "S" for
substitiuded and "R" for required. I would think that the "A" stuff
probably could be deffered as well (ie AC equipment, autopilot, etc).

I am a bit unclear and wanted some clarification on this from the
group. Does this mean to refer to the equip list in the POH and
anything with the letter "O" or optional that is defective can be
deferred and the flight can be continued? Or can the stuff "A" and "O"
be deferred.

Anything that is not R in the equipment list or required by the rules
the flight will be conducted under (day/VFR, night/IFR, whatever) can
be dispatched when broken in the absense of a KOEL (Kind of Operation
Equipment List) or MEL (FAA approved Minimum Equipment List).

For example the co-pilot seat is S (Standard), pilot seat is R
(Required), so as long as nobody is in the seat (or it's removed from
the aircraft) the copilot seat is not needed.

Don't forget about marking the defective equipment as such,
deactivating or removing it from the aircraft, and making an
appropriate mainteance log entry (see 91.213(3)). Weight and ballance
may change if you are removing the defective part.

Thank you for the Reply...

This may be a dumb question, but what exactly is a KOEL? I came
across this term twice and sorta assume its the equipment list in the
POH...is that true or is it an additional list issued by the
manufacturer ?

A KOEL (Kind of Operation Equipment List) is an additional list in the
POH's Limitations section which shows equipment required per flight
rules in a tabular form. I've seen it in the new G1000 Cessna POHs,
as well as the Malibu and Meridian, I'm sure there are others. With
no MEL you go there first and if the equipment isn't listed there then
you go to the equipment list. For exaple, the Malibu has two vaccum
pumps, per the KOEL you can dispatch for VFR/IFR with one operational,
but you need both operational for flight into icing (since the pumps
also operate the de-ice boots).

Peter-

Thank you. I will check the POH for the KOEL. Here is another
question...what does the H2AD mean for the Lycomming o-320-h2ad as
well as the "o" in the front of the 320?
Thanks
JCL

On Mar 23, 2:29 pm, Sushidot wrote:
Hello-

I am a student pilot getting studying for my checkride. One question
that I want to get right is the issue mentioned in the subject header
above.

My instructor said that because we do not have a MEL, we use the POH
and anything that is considered Optional but is defective can be
deferred and the flight could be made. There are three ohter
designations in the Equipment list, "A" for additional, "S" for
substitiuded and "R" for required. I would think that the "A" stuff
probably could be deffered as well (ie AC equipment, autopilot, etc).

I am a bit unclear and wanted some clarification on this from the
group. Does this mean to refer to the equip list in the POH and
anything with the letter "O" or optional that is defective can be
deferred and the flight can be continued? Or can the stuff "A" and "O"
be deferred.

Thanks
SD.

Look for the equipment list with the weight and
balance stuff.

Dan