Perfect loop

My aerobatic traing is going very well, I'm having all the fun I
thought it should provide. So far I haven't messed up a manouver but
I'm nagged by the thought: How can I tell if my loops are perfect
circles? At present I go to full power at the vertical phase and over
the top but then throttle back a lot as I go vertical again .My wings
are level when inverted. I'm pulling 3.5 G as I pull up and level out
again. I hit my wake every time but I wonder how much I should
throttle back on the descent phase. Should I just try to keep rpm
constant? Any ifeas BtB or Dudley or other aerobatic pilot?

Cheers

What kind of airplane? The G pull really doesn't matter. You can do a 2.5G
loop in a Pitts or Extra, or a 7G loop. It's all a matter of finesse and
feel.

People will talke about easing up as you slow at the top of the loop, but it
kind of depends on the plane as well as your energy and speed.

Really, the best way to tell would be to get a ground instructor to watch-
otherwise, you could practice a million loops but they could all be wrong.

More_Flaps wrote in news:7d7074a7-c7bc-4a8b-9fe8-
:

My aerobatic traing is going very well, I'm having all the fun I
thought it should provide. So far I haven't messed up a manouver but
I'm nagged by the thought: How can I tell if my loops are perfect
circles? At present I go to full power at the vertical phase and over
the top but then throttle back a lot as I go vertical again .My wings
are level when inverted. I'm pulling 3.5 G as I pull up and level out
again. I hit my wake every time but I wonder how much I should
throttle back on the descent phase. Should I just try to keep rpm
constant? Any ifeas BtB or Dudley or other aerobatic pilot?


Dudley's the guy, but the only really reliable way I know of to tell
until you become experienced enough to know by feel is to get an outside
observer, or, better yet, a tripod mounted recording of them.
Into the wind helps a lot BTW, but "L" shaped or "granny" loops are
pretty much standard at this stage of your game!



Bertie

On Jun 5, 9:18*am, "Viperdoc" wrote:
What kind of airplane? The G pull really doesn't matter. You can do a 2.5G
loop in a Pitts or Extra, or a 7G loop. It's all a matter of finesse and
feel.

People will talke about easing up as you slow at the top of the loop, but it
kind of depends on the plane as well as your energy and speed.

Really, the best way to tell would be to get a ground instructor to watch-
otherwise, you could practice a million loops but they could all be wrong.

I mentioned the G as I thought it might indicate that the entry and
exit radii were similar -it's the bit of the top I'm not suee about.
Could I use timing from vertical to vertical?

Cheers

More_Flaps wrote:
My aerobatic traing is going very well, I'm having all the fun I
thought it should provide. So far I haven't messed up a manouver but
I'm nagged by the thought: How can I tell if my loops are perfect
circles? At present I go to full power at the vertical phase and over
the top but then throttle back a lot as I go vertical again .My wings
are level when inverted. I'm pulling 3.5 G as I pull up and level out
again. I hit my wake every time but I wonder how much I should
throttle back on the descent phase. Should I just try to keep rpm
constant? Any ifeas BtB or Dudley or other aerobatic pilot?

Cheers

Constant speed prop or fixed pitch? Makes a difference.

Basically, what you're doing in a loop is controlling energy by varying
g and airspeed. The main error pilots make that causes egg shaped loops
is in not easing off the g through the high apex. If you don't ease off
the g through the top you pull the nose down and spoil the circumference
of the maneuver.
As for power control, if you are using a constant speed prop, leave it
alone and use MP (if at all) to control airspeed. In most trainers like
the Decathlon for example, you can just set the airplane up power and
prop wise and fly the loop starting with the suggested entry airspeed
and vary the g to control the shape of the maneuver without touching the
engine controls at all. With a fixed pitch prop, you can increase power
on the way up the vertical line (watch the redline) and decrease it on
the backside (watch the redline). Be especially watchful for overspeed
with the fixed pitch prop.
Generally your g profiule sounds about right 3.5 to 4.0 are good
profiles for the average trainer using about 140 for your entry.

Hitting the wake is a good sign. Sounds like you're doing ok to me.


--
Dudley Henriques

On Jun 5, 9:18*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
More_Flaps wrote in news:7d7074a7-c7bc-4a8b-9fe8-
:

My aerobatic traing is going very well, I'm having all the fun I
thought it should provide. So far I haven't messed up a manouver but
I'm nagged by the thought: How can I tell if my loops are perfect
circles? At present I go to full power at the vertical phase and over
the top but then throttle back a lot as I go vertical again .My wings
are level when inverted. I'm pulling 3.5 G as I pull up and level out
again. I hit my wake every time but I wonder how much I should
throttle back on the descent phase. Should I just try to keep rpm
constant? Any ifeas BtB or Dudley or other aerobatic pilot?

Dudley's the guy, but the only really reliable way I know of to tell
until you become experienced enough to know by feel is to get an outside
observer, or, better yet, a tripod mounted recording of them.
Into the wind helps a lot BTW, but "L" shaped or "granny" loops are
pretty much standard at this stage of your game!


OK but it's not practical for me to have a ground camera. Should rpm
be constant at all stages? What do you use in your Citabria? Could I
try counting through verticals to give me an indication? With a 3.5 G
entry I'm puliing about 0.5 G at the top is that going to give me a
near circular loop?

Cheers

More_Flaps wrote in
:

On Jun 5, 9:18*am, "Viperdoc" wrote:
What kind of airplane? The G pull really doesn't matter. You can do a
2.5G

loop in a Pitts or Extra, or a 7G loop. It's all a matter of finesse
and feel.

People will talke about easing up as you slow at the top of the loop,
but
it
kind of depends on the plane as well as your energy and speed.

Really, the best way to tell would be to get a ground instructor to
watch-

otherwise, you could practice a million loops but they could all be
wrong.


I mentioned the G as I thought it might indicate that the entry and
exit radii were similar -it's the bit of the top I'm not suee about.
Could I use timing from vertical to vertical?

Cheers


Well, with your internal clock, but your speed is constantly changing.
From inside, it's all by feel and intuition, really and the only way
you're going to get that is by seeing it from outside, either through a
critique from someone else or by video ( useless unless the camera is
fixed, BTW) You're probably also torqueing out a bit at the top, which
is another common beginner error and the video will help you visualise
this more accurately when you get back in the airplane after viewing it.
Loops are pretty much the easiest thing to start with and the most
difficult to perfect!

Bertie

On Jun 5, 9:40*am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
More_Flaps wrote:
My aerobatic traing is going very well, I'm having all the fun I
thought it should provide. So far I haven't messed up a manouver but
I'm nagged by the thought: How can I tell if my loops are perfect
circles? At present I go to full power at the vertical phase and over
the top but then throttle back a lot as I go vertical again .My wings
are level when inverted. I'm pulling 3.5 G as I pull up and level out
again. I hit my wake every time but I wonder how much I should
throttle back on the descent phase. Should I just try to keep rpm
constant? Any ifeas BtB or Dudley or other aerobatic pilot?

Cheers

Constant speed prop or fixed pitch? Makes a difference.

Basically, what you're doing in a loop is controlling energy by varying
g and airspeed. The main error pilots make that causes egg shaped loops
is in not easing off the g through the high apex. If you don't ease off
the g through the top you pull the nose down and spoil the circumference
of the maneuver.
As for power control, if you are using a constant speed prop, leave it
alone and use MP (if at all) to control airspeed. In most trainers like
the Decathlon for example, you can just set the airplane up power and
prop wise and fly the loop starting with the suggested entry airspeed
and vary the g to control the shape of the maneuver without touching the
engine controls at all. With a fixed pitch prop, you can increase power
on the way up the vertical line (watch the redline) and decrease it on
the backside (watch the redline). Be especially watchful for overspeed
with the fixed pitch prop.
Generally your g profiule sounds about right 3.5 to 4.0 are good
profiles for the average trainer using about 140 for your entry.

Hitting the wake is a good sign. Sounds like you're doing ok to me.


Thanks D, my entry is 140 as you suggest and i'm exiting close to that
speed. Its a fixed pitch plane and I am trottling well back on the
dive (2000 rpm) and my G at the top is dropping to about 0.5, I'm
easing the stick only slightly as I go over. Any other ideas that I
can use to evaluate my circularity (or lack thereof?).

Cheers

More_Flaps wrote in news:12a345a9-5ce8-4938-9b3e-
:

On Jun 5, 9:18*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
More_Flaps wrote in news:7d7074a7-c7bc-4a8b-
9fe8-
:

My aerobatic traing is going very well, I'm having all the fun I
thought it should provide. So far I haven't messed up a manouver
but
I'm nagged by the thought: How can I tell if my loops are perfect
circles? At present I go to full power at the vertical phase and
over
the top but then throttle back a lot as I go vertical again .My
wings
are level when inverted. I'm pulling 3.5 G as I pull up and level
out
again. I hit my wake every time but I wonder how much I should
throttle back on the descent phase. Should I just try to keep rpm
constant? Any ifeas BtB or Dudley or other aerobatic pilot?

Dudley's the guy, but the only really reliable way I know of to tell
until you become experienced enough to know by feel is to get an
outside
observer, or, better yet, a tripod mounted recording of them.
Into the wind helps a lot BTW, but "L" shaped or "granny" loops are
pretty much standard at this stage of your game!


OK but it's not practical for me to have a ground camera. Should rpm
be constant at all stages? What do you use in your Citabria? Could I
try counting through verticals to give me an indication? With a 3.5 G
entry I'm puliing about 0.5 G at the top is that going to give me a
near circular loop?

Mine's stil not flying! Aaaargh! More delays now. I'm going on a fairly
rusty memory now, so take it al with a grain of salt, but just get a
friend to take a quick snip of you from a distance if you can. The other
option is a good ground observer, preferably with a viewing glass for
the loops ( something clear with a circle on it so he can hold it up
against your figure to compare)
Max poser as soon as it will take it all the way up and a bit over the
top and then reducing on the way down to about a third throttle or less
on the way down sounds about right for a Citabria. Your G figures sound
about right, though, so you're probably doing pretty good.


Bertie

On Jun 5, 9:51*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
More_Flaps wrote in news:12a345a9-5ce8-4938-9b3e-
:







On Jun 5, 9:18*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
More_Flaps wrote in news:7d7074a7-c7bc-4a8b-
9fe8-
:

My aerobatic traing is going very well, I'm having all the fun I
thought it should provide. So far I haven't messed up a manouver
but
I'm nagged by the thought: How can I tell if my loops are perfect
circles? At present I go to full power at the vertical phase and
over
the top but then throttle back a lot as I go vertical again .My
wings
are level when inverted. I'm pulling 3.5 G as I pull up and level
out
again. I hit my wake every time but I wonder how much I should
throttle back on the descent phase. Should I just try to keep rpm
constant? Any ifeas BtB or Dudley or other aerobatic pilot?

Dudley's the guy, but the only really reliable way I know of to tell
until you become experienced enough to know by feel is to get an
outside
observer, or, better yet, a tripod mounted recording of them.
Into the wind helps a lot BTW, but "L" shaped or "granny" loops are
pretty much standard at this stage of your game!

OK but it's not practical for me to have a ground camera. Should rpm
be constant at all stages? What do you use in your Citabria? Could I
try counting through verticals to give me an indication? With a 3.5 G
entry I'm puliing about 0.5 G at the top is that going to give me a
near circular loop?

Mine's stil not flying! Aaaargh! More delays now. I'm going on a fairly
rusty memory now, so take it al with a grain of salt, but just get a
friend to take a quick snip of you from a distance if you can. The other
option is a good ground observer, preferably with a viewing glass for
the loops ( something clear with a circle on it so he can hold it up
against your figure to compare)
Max poser as soon as it will take it all the way up

Love that typo!!!!! Max poser indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CHEERS!