Questioning the Kerry 'war record'...

So Kerry got shot at and earnt his medals,
Bush never got shot at and didn't earn any.

Now, youse say that Kerry may have not earnt
his medals. Kerry got them what because he was
a good man, trustworthy you say?


Thomas J. Paladino Jr. wrote:
Seems there is more to Kerry than the 'war hero' persona that has become so
popular with the gushing liberal media. There is a strong chance his war
record has been greatly exaggerated....
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The following was sent to a Marine chat net by a retired Marine Master
Sergeant who was in S-2, 3rd Bn, 1st Marines, Korea in 1954. It calls into
serious question John Kerry's military actions in Vietnam. We present it to
give our readers another perspective to the media's one-sided "war hero"
adulation, and to open his actions to the light of public discourse. -- The
Editors.

I was in the Delta shortly after John Kerry left. I know that area well. I
know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the
doctrine used, and I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116
(PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's
command.

Here are my problems and suspicions:


(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected a Bronze Star,
a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. I never heard of anybody with any
outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the
River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware that fast, and for such
pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job, but that duty wasn't
the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the
major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was
mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs.

(2) He collected three Purple Hearts but has no limp. All his injuries were
so minor that he lost no time from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting
himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house
hatch? Combat on, the boats were almost always at close range. You didn't
have minor wounds, at least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he
used the three Purple Hearts to request a trip home eight months before the
end of his tour. Fishy.

(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no
sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie
jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with
the twin .50, Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and
retreives the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong.
(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern
to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity
of a frisbie after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and
the beach and begin raking it with your .50's.
(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round
and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There
was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you
just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and
you wanted some derring-do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot
wounded people. We had rules against that, too.
(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing
procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER!
The reason was simple: If you had somebody on the beach, your boat was
defenseless. It coudn't run and it couldn' t return fire. It was stupid and
it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I
never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a
firefight.

Something is fishy.

Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court martial for
carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by running
across the bow of a Japanese destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam long enough
to get good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where
lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early and
requests separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run
for Congress. In that election, he finds out war heroes don't sell well in
Massachsetts in 1970, so he reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his
ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political
career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and has Bobby
Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting. A few years later he winds
up in the Senate himself, where he votes against every major defense bill
and says the CIA is irrelevant after the Berlin Wall came down. He votes
against the Gulf War (a big political mistake since that turned out well),
then decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for invading
Iraq -- but that didn't fare as well with the Democrats, so he now says he
really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow him to go to
war.

I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering out flanks in Vietnam. I
sure don't want him as Commander-in-Chief. I hope that somebody from CTF-115
shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record. I know in my
gut it's wildy inflated.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=12272

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote:
Seems there is more to Kerry than the 'war hero' persona that has become so
popular with the gushing liberal media. There is a strong chance his war
record has been greatly exaggerated....
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry to bust your bubble, Thomas, but the chance it was exaggerated is only in the minds
of some who refuse to believe the truth. Those people tend to be of the anti-Kerry variety,
or so it seems.

The particular nonsense below is getting posted so frequently, I've had to resort to a
cut-and-paste reply.

Please read on, assuming you haven't read this any of the 5-6 other times it was posted.

The following was sent to a Marine chat net by a retired Marine Master
Sergeant who was in S-2, 3rd Bn, 1st Marines, Korea in 1954. It calls into
serious question John Kerry's military actions in Vietnam. We present it to
give our readers another perspective to the media's one-sided "war hero"
adulation, and to open his actions to the light of public discourse. -- The
Editors.

I thank you for your service. War was bad enough, but war with a winter, well, that would
have been too much for me.

Anyway, Korea wasn't Vietnam. But then the article/letter below was written by a Vietnam
vet, so on to my reply . . . . . . .

I was in the Delta shortly after John Kerry left. I know that area
well. I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the
tactics and the doctrine used, and I know the equipment. Although I
was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with
CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command.

Here are my problems and suspicions:

(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected a Bronze
Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. I never heard of anybody
with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves,
Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware
that fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a
commendable job, but that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They
operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and
Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the
smaller, faster PBRs.

Flat out, totally, absolutely, FALSE. I would venture to say that Kerry's boat never saw
the Mekong. He operated, for much of his time, in the southernmost delta on relatively
small rivers and canals -- from a few feet wider than the boat, to about 100 yds across,
and various widths inbetween.

When it comes to "rough stuff", I couldn't give you a top ten list, but I am sure if there
was such a thing the Swift Boats would be on it . . . certainly in the part of the delta
Kerry operated in for much of the time.

(2) He collected three Purple Hearts but has no limp.

Interesting. You need a limp to qualify for a Purple Heart? Never heard that one.

All his injuries were so minor that he lost no time from duty.

He has said his wounds were minor. So what? Lucky for him. He did miss two days as a result
of one of them, however.

Amazing luck.
Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head
on the wheel house hatch? Combat on, the boats were almost always at
close range. You didn't have minor wounds, at least not often. Not
three times in a row. Then he used the three Purple Hearts to request
a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.

No, not fishy. It was according to Navy regulations. You get three Purple Hearts, you
request to be sent home. You go.

(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star
make no sense at all.

Probably because you don't know what happened, since you don't seem to know much else.

Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and missed.

No, not "supposedly". A B-40 was, in fact, fired at the boat. It missed -- you got that
part right.

Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner
knocks him down with the twin .50, Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off,
shoots Charlie, and retreives the launcher. If true, he did everything
wrong.

Well, that's not true, like most of your "facts". Here it is, in order, after the B-40 is
fired:

1. The boat is beached

2. The guy jumps out of his hole, and is then was shot by the M-60, in the leg. The .50 cal
didn't fire at that point. (Nor did he hit him whan he did fire)

3. He gets up, and runs away.

4. Kerry runs him down and shoots him down.

(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your
stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic
integrity of a frisbie after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so
between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50's.

Perhaps it was standard procedure, but this wasn't a standard situation. I say this for a
number of reasons, some of which you wouldn't know, some of which you may but ignore. But
considering how off the mark you are with much of this, you probably aren't even aware of
the parts of the story that are readily available in the public domain.

(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber
round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was
empty.

1. It wasn't a .50 cal, it was an M-60. And, it was in the leg.

2. He was in no way dead or dying. As I said, he immediately got up and continued running.
Either that or he levitated 60-80-100 ft from the boat to where he was eventually killed.

3. Nope. The rocket was very much loaded.

Congratulations -- you were three for three -- wrong, wrong, wrong.


There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was
no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his last few
seconds on earth, and you wanted some derring-do in your after-action
report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against
that, too.

Didn't shoot wounded people? What war were you in? If there's shooting going on, you shoot
back. That's the way it was where I was. That's the way it was that day. Perhaps it was
different for you.

(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing
procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area.
EVER! The reason was simple: If you had somebody on the beach, your
boat was defenseless. It coudn't run and it couldn' t return fire. It
was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been
relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever
leaving a boat during or after a firefight.

Sorry, while certainly not typical, people definitely got off the boat from time-to-time if
the situation warranted. In this incident, it did.

Something is fishy.

Other than your analysis, nothing is fishy.

I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering out flanks in
Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander-in-Chief. I hope that
somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's
Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildy inflated.

Many have shown up -- including an Army Special Forces guy. Maybe you missed that in the
news. This was the guy Kerry saved in the middle of a firefight by fishing him out of the
water after he was blown off the boat by a B-40 (or a mine). It was one of those actions,
well, you know, that "rough duty" that was left to the PBRs. I guess there weren't any PBRs
available that day.

The SF guy, a lifelong republican, hadn't spoken to Kerry since that day. Care to guess who
he's going to vote for?

Anyway, you might try reading up on the accounts of some of these people before you come
out with anymore of your stories.

Doug Reese
9th Inf Div -- 1968
MACV -- 1969

Bush actually intercepted more than a few Soviet bombers during his time
in
the guard (it was not an uncommon occourance).

I'd love to read about these events. Can you tell us more, please? Dates,
what type of commie bombers our President interecepted, etc.

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.