SeeYou run on Apple

Anybody have a good way to run SeeYou on a Apple Mac without
partioning the hard drive ?

On Jun 13, 6:41*am, kimobear wrote:
Anybody have a good way to run SeeYou on a Apple Mac without
partioning the hard drive ?

VMware Fusion (http://www.vmware.com/products/fusion) or Parallels
Desktop for Mac (http://www.parallels.com/products/desktop) both
allow Windows to run concurrently with OS X on an Intel based Mac. You
do not need to partition the disk, both can use a disk file on OS X
that will look like a disk drive to Windows. You do need to install a
copy of Windows (use Windows XP if you have a copy or can get one,
better than wasting time with Vista, and it runs faster).

Fusion does not do 3D acceleration for Open GL graphics (SeeYou is the
minority, most Windows applications use DirectX 3D graphics).
Parallels does do some Open GL hardware acceleration. VMware Fusion
is overall a better product and more stable, but then I'm highly
biased. Either case you want a fast Mac and at lots of memory since a
full copy of Windows and SeeYou are running concurently with OS X and
its apps on the Mac. These hypervisor based products have the benefit
(and disadvantage) that full Windows is runnning so you get bug for
bug behavior and any other Windows apps you need can also run. But you
have to have a Windows license, administer Windows, worry about
viruses etc. But a lot of the usual Windows hassles can be minimized
if you just keep that install really simple. You don't have to but if
somebody already has a Bootcamp Windows partition either produt can
run that Windows install without needing to reboot via Bootcamp, but
there can be some Windows hardware profile "fun" to deal with.

Wine (http://wiki.winehq.org/MacOSX) is another option, and can run
SeeYou on a Linux system but is not really there under Mac OS X AFAIK.

Darryl

On Jun 13, 6:41*am, kimobear wrote:
Anybody have a good way to run SeeYou on a Apple Mac without
partioning the hard drive ?

You need to have an Intel-based Mac or you will have pretty
unsatisfactory results - though I think it is possible. If you have an
Intel-based Mac there are basically two possibilities:

Run one of the WINE implementations that translates Windows OS calls
into Mac OS X equivalents. I have used Codeweavers Crossover:

http://www.codeweavers.com/

It works pretty well for everything except 3D mode which is not
supported. I have not tested it extensively, but it works well enough
to play back a flight. They don't officially support SeeYou so you may
encounter occasional bugs, but my experience has been tolerable.

A more robust answer is to run Virtual Machine software (I use
Parallels, but there is also a product from VMWare):

http://www.vmware.com/products/fusion/
http://www.parallels.com/products/desktop/

In this case you will also need to obtain a copy of Windows (I run
Vista Home Basic, but lots of people run XP too). This is a more
expensive solution, but under $200 if you buy at the right places.
None of these approaches require a disk partition.

The third solution is to use Apple's BootCamp and load Windows to run
on the Mac's Intel hardware natively. This does require a partition
but supposedly has the benefit of running faster and more reliably
since there is no intermediate software translation layer. I tried it
for awhile but didn't notice a significant speed uptick at it lacks
the translation of Mac keyboard and trackpad shortcuts that the other
solutions have. Also the need to reboot to switch between Mac and
Window environments is a pain if you need to run both more or less at
the same time.

You might try Crossover first as there is a 30-day free trial. If you
feel you need more you can go the more sophisticated route of running
a VM implementation.

Good luck!

9B

On Jun 13, 7:49*am, Andy wrote:
On Jun 13, 6:41*am, kimobear wrote:

Anybody have a good way to run SeeYou on a Apple Mac without
partioning the hard drive ?

You need to have an Intel-based Mac or you will have pretty
unsatisfactory results - though I think it is possible. If you have an
Intel-based Mac there are basically two possibilities:

Run one of the WINE implementations that translates Windows OS calls
into Mac OS X equivalents. I have used Codeweavers Crossover:

http://www.codeweavers.com/

It works pretty well for everything except 3D mode which is not
supported. *I have not tested it extensively, but it works well enough
to play back a flight. They don't officially support SeeYou so you may
encounter occasional bugs, but my experience has been tolerable.

A more robust answer is to run Virtual Machine software (I use
Parallels, but there is also a product from VMWare):

http://www.vmware.com/products/fusio...ducts/desktop/

In this case you will also need to obtain a copy of Windows (I run
Vista Home Basic, but lots of people run XP too). *This is a more
expensive solution, but under $200 if you buy at the right places.
None of these approaches require a disk partition.

The third solution is to use Apple's BootCamp and load Windows to run
on the Mac's Intel hardware natively. This does require a partition
but supposedly has the benefit of running faster and more reliably
since there is no intermediate software translation layer. I tried it
for awhile but didn't notice a significant speed uptick at it lacks
the translation of Mac keyboard and trackpad shortcuts that the other
solutions have. Also the need to reboot to switch between Mac and
Window environments is a pain if you need to run both more or less at
the same time.

You might try Crossover first as there is a 30-day free trial. If you
feel you need more you can go the more sophisticated route of running
a VM implementation.

Good luck!

9B

Darryl beat me to the punch because he types faster. Now I might have
to load my copy of Fusion from VMWare. Why do you like it better? You
worked for them once didn't you?

On either of these products be aware you can buy them for a lot less
via the Apple Educational store online. Only you will know if you
meet all the requirements of being an educator, student, or buying for
a student. The products are identical.

9B

On Jun 13, 7:59*am, Andy wrote:
On Jun 13, 7:49*am, Andy wrote:



On Jun 13, 6:41*am, kimobear wrote:

Anybody have a good way to run SeeYou on a Apple Mac without
partioning the hard drive ?

You need to have an Intel-based Mac or you will have pretty
unsatisfactory results - though I think it is possible. If you have an
Intel-based Mac there are basically two possibilities:

Run one of the WINE implementations that translates Windows OS calls
into Mac OS X equivalents. I have used Codeweavers Crossover:

http://www.codeweavers.com/

It works pretty well for everything except 3D mode which is not
supported. *I have not tested it extensively, but it works well enough
to play back a flight. They don't officially support SeeYou so you may
encounter occasional bugs, but my experience has been tolerable.

A more robust answer is to run Virtual Machine software (I use
Parallels, but there is also a product from VMWare):

http://www.vmware.com/products/fusio...els.com/produc...

In this case you will also need to obtain a copy of Windows (I run
Vista Home Basic, but lots of people run XP too). *This is a more
expensive solution, but under $200 if you buy at the right places.
None of these approaches require a disk partition.

The third solution is to use Apple's BootCamp and load Windows to run
on the Mac's Intel hardware natively. This does require a partition
but supposedly has the benefit of running faster and more reliably
since there is no intermediate software translation layer. I tried it
for awhile but didn't notice a significant speed uptick at it lacks
the translation of Mac keyboard and trackpad shortcuts that the other
solutions have. Also the need to reboot to switch between Mac and
Window environments is a pain if you need to run both more or less at
the same time.

You might try Crossover first as there is a 30-day free trial. If you
feel you need more you can go the more sophisticated route of running
a VM implementation.

Good luck!

9B

Darryl beat me to the punch because he types faster. *Now I might have
to load my copy of Fusion from VMWare. Why do you like it better? *You
worked for them once didn't you?

On either of these products be aware you can buy them for a lot less
via the Apple Educational store online. *Only you will know if you
meet all the requirements of being an educator, student, or buying for
a student. The products are identical.

9B

Andy, yes I worked for them, I helped get them started. But Fusion is
generally more stable, has better multiprocessor support, and a better
product. You trust everything I say right? :-)

If Wine can do the job then that is the minimal overhead (cost,
install hassle etc.) but I don't think it is qite there yet on the
Mac. Many of use have a collection of a few critical Windows
applications that just have to work under real Windows and I'm not
using Bootcamp to reboot to have to get to them. In my case that
includes, SeeYou, SeeYou Mobile PC simulator, Winscore, Winscore
Viewer, Google Earth and the Tobias' IGC replay software, Microsoft
ActiveSync to talk to PDAs, popular PC Web browers (Mozilla, Chrome,
IE, Opera) for software testing, programming software for my home
audio system remote controls, embedded processor software IDE tools I
needed for a project, Windows Mobile emulators and development tools,
etc. etc.

The only time you should need to reboot into Bootcamp is if you want
to run Windows high end graphcis games. Although some 3D games will
run with partial acceleration under Fusion or Parallels.

The cost of Fusion or Parallels is less than the cost of the Windows
license, also factor in the cost of the time it will take to do a
Windows install and set everything up. Both products have suspend/
resume so you do not boot windows each time you need to run something.
It is like resuming a suspended laptop.

Darryl

On Jun 13, 8:22*am, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Jun 13, 7:59*am, Andy wrote:



On Jun 13, 7:49*am, Andy wrote:

On Jun 13, 6:41*am, kimobear wrote:

Anybody have a good way to run SeeYou on a Apple Mac without
partioning the hard drive ?

You need to have an Intel-based Mac or you will have pretty
unsatisfactory results - though I think it is possible. If you have an
Intel-based Mac there are basically two possibilities:

Run one of the WINE implementations that translates Windows OS calls
into Mac OS X equivalents. I have used Codeweavers Crossover:

http://www.codeweavers.com/

It works pretty well for everything except 3D mode which is not
supported. *I have not tested it extensively, but it works well enough
to play back a flight. They don't officially support SeeYou so you may
encounter occasional bugs, but my experience has been tolerable.

A more robust answer is to run Virtual Machine software (I use
Parallels, but there is also a product from VMWare):

http://www.vmware.com/products/fusio...els.com/produc....

In this case you will also need to obtain a copy of Windows (I run
Vista Home Basic, but lots of people run XP too). *This is a more
expensive solution, but under $200 if you buy at the right places.
None of these approaches require a disk partition.

The third solution is to use Apple's BootCamp and load Windows to run
on the Mac's Intel hardware natively. This does require a partition
but supposedly has the benefit of running faster and more reliably
since there is no intermediate software translation layer. I tried it
for awhile but didn't notice a significant speed uptick at it lacks
the translation of Mac keyboard and trackpad shortcuts that the other
solutions have. Also the need to reboot to switch between Mac and
Window environments is a pain if you need to run both more or less at
the same time.

You might try Crossover first as there is a 30-day free trial. If you
feel you need more you can go the more sophisticated route of running
a VM implementation.

Good luck!

9B

Darryl beat me to the punch because he types faster. *Now I might have
to load my copy of Fusion from VMWare. Why do you like it better? *You
worked for them once didn't you?

On either of these products be aware you can buy them for a lot less
via the Apple Educational store online. *Only you will know if you
meet all the requirements of being an educator, student, or buying for
a student. The products are identical.

9B

Andy, yes I worked for them, I helped get them started. But Fusion is
generally more stable, has better multiprocessor support, and a better
product. You trust everything I say right? :-)

If Wine can do the job then that is the minimal overhead (cost,
install hassle etc.) but I don't think it is qite there yet on the
Mac. Many of use have a collection of a few critical Windows
applications that just have to work under real Windows and I'm not
using Bootcamp to reboot to have to get to them. In my case that
includes, SeeYou, SeeYou Mobile PC simulator, Winscore, Winscore
Viewer, Google Earth and the Tobias' IGC replay software, Microsoft
ActiveSync to talk to PDAs, popular PC Web browers (Mozilla, Chrome,
IE, Opera) for software testing, programming software for my home
audio system remote controls, embedded processor software IDE tools I
needed for a project, Windows Mobile emulators and development tools,
etc. etc.

The only time you should need to reboot into Bootcamp is if you want
to run Windows high end graphcis games. Although some 3D games will
run with partial acceleration under Fusion or Parallels.

The cost of Fusion or Parallels is less than the cost of the Windows
license, also factor in the cost of the time it will take to do a
Windows install and set everything up. Both products have suspend/
resume so you do not boot windows each time you need to run something.
It is like resuming a suspended laptop.

Darryl

Is the 3D rendering up to a tolerable speed with a bunch of logs
loaded or does it bog down a bit vs Parallels? Parallels is pretty
stable for me and I think my USB serial dongle works - though I have
not tested it extensively. Every so often I'll get into some
alternate keyboard mode and have to reset it, but I suspect that's an
operator error since I have not RTFM.

9B

On Jun 14, 11:59*am, Andy wrote:
On Jun 13, 8:22*am, Darryl Ramm wrote:



On Jun 13, 7:59*am, Andy wrote:

On Jun 13, 7:49*am, Andy wrote:

On Jun 13, 6:41*am, kimobear wrote:

Anybody have a good way to run SeeYou on a Apple Mac without
partioning the hard drive ?

You need to have an Intel-based Mac or you will have pretty
unsatisfactory results - though I think it is possible. If you have an
Intel-based Mac there are basically two possibilities:

Run one of the WINE implementations that translates Windows OS calls
into Mac OS X equivalents. I have used Codeweavers Crossover:

http://www.codeweavers.com/

It works pretty well for everything except 3D mode which is not
supported. *I have not tested it extensively, but it works well enough
to play back a flight. They don't officially support SeeYou so you may
encounter occasional bugs, but my experience has been tolerable.

A more robust answer is to run Virtual Machine software (I use
Parallels, but there is also a product from VMWare):

http://www.vmware.com/products/fusio...els.com/produc...

In this case you will also need to obtain a copy of Windows (I run
Vista Home Basic, but lots of people run XP too). *This is a more
expensive solution, but under $200 if you buy at the right places.
None of these approaches require a disk partition.

The third solution is to use Apple's BootCamp and load Windows to run
on the Mac's Intel hardware natively. This does require a partition
but supposedly has the benefit of running faster and more reliably
since there is no intermediate software translation layer. I tried it
for awhile but didn't notice a significant speed uptick at it lacks
the translation of Mac keyboard and trackpad shortcuts that the other
solutions have. Also the need to reboot to switch between Mac and
Window environments is a pain if you need to run both more or less at
the same time.

You might try Crossover first as there is a 30-day free trial. If you
feel you need more you can go the more sophisticated route of running
a VM implementation.

Good luck!

9B

Darryl beat me to the punch because he types faster. *Now I might have
to load my copy of Fusion from VMWare. Why do you like it better? *You
worked for them once didn't you?

On either of these products be aware you can buy them for a lot less
via the Apple Educational store online. *Only you will know if you
meet all the requirements of being an educator, student, or buying for
a student. The products are identical.

9B

Andy, yes I worked for them, I helped get them started. But Fusion is
generally more stable, has better multiprocessor support, and a better
product. You trust everything I say right? :-)

If Wine can do the job then that is the minimal overhead (cost,
install hassle etc.) but I don't think it is qite there yet on the
Mac. Many of use have a collection of a few critical Windows
applications that just have to work under real Windows and I'm not
using Bootcamp to reboot to have to get to them. In my case that
includes, SeeYou, SeeYou Mobile PC simulator, Winscore, Winscore
Viewer, Google Earth and the Tobias' IGC replay software, Microsoft
ActiveSync to talk to PDAs, popular PC Web browers (Mozilla, Chrome,
IE, Opera) for software testing, programming software for my home
audio system remote controls, embedded processor software IDE tools I
needed for a project, Windows Mobile emulators and development tools,
etc. etc.

The only time you should need to reboot into Bootcamp is if you want
to run Windows high end graphcis games. Although some 3D games will
run with partial acceleration under Fusion or Parallels.

The cost of Fusion or Parallels is less than the cost of the Windows
license, also factor in the cost of the time it will take to do a
Windows install and set everything up. Both products have suspend/
resume so you do not boot windows each time you need to run something.
It is like resuming a suspended laptop.

Darryl

Is the 3D rendering up to a tolerable speed with a bunch of logs
loaded or does it bog down a bit vs Parallels? *Parallels is pretty
stable for me and I think my USB serial dongle works - though I have
not tested it extensively. *Every so often I'll get into some
alternate keyboard mode and have to reset it, but I suspect that's an
operator error since I have not RTFM.

9B

Andy, it depends on what speed hardware are running on and how much
you use it. I run on a 2.5 GHz 17" MacBook Pro with 4 GB memory, even
without hardware acceleration you can use the 3D animation but it is
not fast. But I'll point out I rarely use SeeYou in 3D, I normally
just using 2D view and looking at stats.

Buy me a beer and I'll bring my Mac along and you can play.

Darryl

On Jun 13, 9:41*am, kimobear wrote:
Anybody have a good way to run SeeYou on a Apple Mac without
partioning the hard drive ?

I have used SeeYou with both VMWare Fusion and Parallels on a MacBook
Pro. Both work fine with SeeYou. I use Fusion now because is seems
more stable and has better USB support for the Keyspan serial
adapter.

Todd
3S

On Jun 13, 9:41*am, kimobear wrote:

Anybody have a good way to run SeeYou on a Apple Mac without
partioning the hard drive ?


In a soaring-computing geek-fest, Darryl and I compared VMware Fusion
to Parallels. Both seem now to be pretty stable products so the main
difference is that the OpenGL acceleration support in Parallels
generates 3D graphics performance that is noticeably faster and
smoother than Fusion. I can speak to support of USB serial dongles,
but will give this a try in the coming week.

9B

Andy wrote:

the OpenGL acceleration support in Parallels
generates 3D graphics performance that is noticeably faster and
smoother than Fusion.

What does this mean, is it standable or not? What hardware was used?

I can speak to support of USB serial dongles,
but will give this a try in the coming week.

This would be interesting indeed.