Cross Country Sailplanes: In the Flatland

I'm not a frequent reader of rec.aviation.soaring, so at the risk of
asking a common question, I'll pose my question. I fly cross country here
in the meaty middle (cheesy middle? ) part of the US-- mostly Wisconsin,
often Minnesota, sometimes Iowa, Illinois, South Dakota, Michigan. I often
land off-field (in 50 cross country flights, or attempts, I've landed
off-field on 26 flights).

While landing off-field seems to be a downside for some pilots, I take it
as just a natural part of aggressively flying cross country. Of course, I
fly in a part of the world where this is often possible. There are usually
fields with low crops or cut hay fields in good abundance in this part of
the US. And, for whatever reason, I've had very good experiences with
farmers!

I want to change ships. Presently, I fly a Schweizer 1-35. While I enjoy
the heck out of flying this ship, and have it pimped out just right , I
have reached max gross weight on the ship, and want to add more toys. For
example, I want to take my ship out West to do some mountain flying, and
thus need to add an O2 system. While some people decide to fly over max
gross weight, I don't choose to do so.

My budget is in the same range as the cost of a Schweizer 1-35 (around 20K
US dollars). I don't particlarly feel the need to go up in L/D
performance. My thought is while that would give me longer legs, my
soaring enjoyment largely comes from challenging myself to the next
longest flight in my current ship-- I don't see the need for more than
35:1 or so. I'd rather work on my skills than add L/D to my ship.

I think a 15-meter ship is best for my flying. While there are many nice
ships with longer spans, I have landed at relatively narrow private
airfields. I don't know if a span winder than 15-m would fit. Plus, I
often like to pull off of an asphalt runway, between landing lights, to
give way to traffic. I'd rather not do that with longer wings.

So, given this wing span (15-m), budget range (20K-ish), and this
performance range (35:1-ish), and my frequency of landing off-field, and
my need to have enough gross weight for a reasonable equipment load
(normal glider instruments, plus transponder, dual batteries, off-field
landing kit, O2 system, GPS etc) what's the best ship?

My thoughts right now have put a priority on a T-tailed ship, and one that
sits up really high on the gear. Perhaps I should state: top-wing-only dive
brakes too. A T-tail ship should keep the horizontal stabilizer away from
any crops, and the same rationale applies to the dive brakes. Having the
ship sit up really high on the gear helps not only with the crop, but any
furrows in the field, to reduce scraping on the buttom of the hull, and
gear doors.

Within my price range a Jantar Standard seems to fit these criteria. The
DG-100/101 from what I've read, can be fitted with an extra large wheel.
That might be a good option though, though I'm not sure how much larger
that extra large wheel can be, and how much higher it makes the ship sit
(I need to contact DG).

Thoughts?

Thanks, and Safe Soaring!
Chris.

On Aug 9, 10:45*pm, Chris Prince wrote:
I fly cross country here
in the meaty middle (cheesy middle? ) part of the US-- mostly Wisconsin,
often Minnesota, sometimes Iowa, Illinois, South Dakota, Michigan. I often
land off-field (in 50 cross country flights, or attempts, I've landed
off-field on 26 flights).

Something is wrong here. I and those in my club also fly in the soggy
corn-evaporation infested middle of the country, cross country on
every flight. We don't land out half the time. One or two landouts per
year, almost always at airports, is the norm. Unless you're planning
straight-out flights, or trying for absolute longest distance possible
triangles so you're landing out at 7 pm, something is very wrong
here. Wildly excessive aggressiveness? Inefficient thermaling? I
would advise fly with some other people, fly with an instructor, go to
a contest to see what everyone else is doing and get back to a more
normal landout ratio! Buying a newer glider is a great idea too, but
accepting this landout ratio and orienting the new glider purchase
around that doesn't seem like such a good plan

John Cochrane BB

On Aug 10, 8:44*am, John Cochrane
wrote:
On Aug 9, 10:45*pm, Chris Prince wrote:

I fly cross country here
in the meaty middle (cheesy middle? ) part of the US-- mostly Wisconsin,
often Minnesota, sometimes Iowa, Illinois, South Dakota, Michigan. I often
land off-field (in 50 cross country flights, or attempts, I've landed
off-field on 26 flights).

Something is wrong here. I and those in my club also fly in the soggy
corn-evaporation infested middle of the country, cross country on
every flight. We don't land out half the time. One or two landouts per
year, almost always at airports, is the norm. Unless you're planning
straight-out flights, or trying for absolute longest distance possible
triangles so you're landing out at 7 pm, something is very wrong
here. *Wildly excessive aggressiveness? Inefficient thermaling? I
would advise fly with some other people, fly with an instructor, go to
a contest to see what everyone else is doing and get back to a more
normal landout ratio! *Buying a newer glider is a great idea too, but
accepting this landout ratio and orienting the new glider purchase
around that doesn't seem like such a good plan

John Cochrane BB

Thanks for your thoughts, John. I sometimes fly straight-outs, down-
wind, so that does account for some of these landouts. My main thought
though, is to make full use of the soaring day. If this is best called
wildly excessive aggressiveness, I'm not sure. A flight that
characterizes the way I like to fly was one I made a couple of years
back where I made a couple of hundred mile near-closed course flight,
and landed 10 miles away from my home field (at a private strip, it
turns out; Thanks to JC Cunningham for the retrieve on that one!). I
felt fully satisfied that I'd made the best use of the soaring day.
There are many different kinds of values and preferences we place on
flying and soaring. Some people like to stick around the airfield.
Some people like to fly contests. Some people like to fly down wind.
Some people like to fly shorter, speed courses. Some people like the
milk the absolute most out of the day, and of their skills, and
aircraft.

As a bottom line, we do have one heck of a lot of fun!!! And after
safety, isn't that what it's all about?!

Chris.

crspybits wrote:
On Aug 10, 8:44 am, John Cochrane
wrote:
On Aug 9, 10:45 pm, Chris Prince wrote:

I fly cross country here
in the meaty middle (cheesy middle? ) part of the US-- mostly Wisconsin,
often Minnesota, sometimes Iowa, Illinois, South Dakota, Michigan. I often
land off-field (in 50 cross country flights, or attempts, I've landed
off-field on 26 flights).
Something is wrong here. I and those in my club also fly in the soggy
corn-evaporation infested middle of the country, cross country on
every flight. We don't land out half the time. One or two landouts per
year, almost always at airports, is the norm. Unless you're planning
straight-out flights, or trying for absolute longest distance possible
triangles so you're landing out at 7 pm, something is very wrong
here. Wildly excessive aggressiveness? Inefficient thermaling? I
would advise fly with some other people, fly with an instructor, go to
a contest to see what everyone else is doing and get back to a more
normal landout ratio! Buying a newer glider is a great idea too, but
accepting this landout ratio and orienting the new glider purchase
around that doesn't seem like such a good plan

John Cochrane BB

Thanks for your thoughts, John. I sometimes fly straight-outs, down-
wind, so that does account for some of these landouts. My main thought
though, is to make full use of the soaring day. If this is best called
wildly excessive aggressiveness, I'm not sure. A flight that
characterizes the way I like to fly was one I made a couple of years
back where I made a couple of hundred mile near-closed course flight,
and landed 10 miles away from my home field (at a private strip, it
turns out; Thanks to JC Cunningham for the retrieve on that one!). I
felt fully satisfied that I'd made the best use of the soaring day.
There are many different kinds of values and preferences we place on
flying and soaring. Some people like to stick around the airfield.
Some people like to fly contests. Some people like to fly down wind.
Some people like to fly shorter, speed courses. Some people like the
milk the absolute most out of the day, and of their skills, and
aircraft.

Flying out West were you need oxygen presents very different landing
options compared to relatively flat farm states you list. Generally,
there are fewer, and access to them is more difficult. Even if you land
at an airport that is only 20 miles from where you launch, the mountains
in the way can make it an 80 mile car trip to get to you. Dry lakes
might provide a safe landing but can take a day to reach you. Cell phone
coverage can be very spotty or totally absent - ditto for a farmer. It's
a different ball game in the desert.

Before going there, I suggest you spend a few months of practicing
cross-country flying at home where you land only at airports, and at a
10% or less rate. Since you are accustomed to a glider with landing
flaps and a relatively low wind loading, you will need practice (maybe a
lot) with your new glider if it's spoiler equipped and has a
significantly higher wing loading, as typical of the $20K fiberglass
gliders. Not only will it land faster and longer because of those
differences, but the high density altitude out west will make the
situation more difficult.

And if you really want to continue the 50% landout rate, you better
bring your good buddy, a satellite phone, and a 4 wheel drive vehicle
with you!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* Sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

This thread got me interested so I dug through my logbook. I counted 22
flights in the Cherokee where I set out for a cross country flight. On 16
of those I landed out which I defined as landing somewhere not designated
or ever used for landing aircraft. So a measly 73% landout rate. Chris if
you are going to keep flying in the midwest you have some catching up to
do!

I have opportunity to do better though, I just moved to Kansas and after
June the wheat fields are empty allowing plenty of places to land.
Previously in Iowa I couldnt really go anywhere in the middle of the
summer thanks to fields full of crops.


-Tony Condon
Cherokee II N373Y