There's oil in them engines

[[email protected]]

Hey folks, I am going to ferrying an airplane from Florida to Virginia next
week. This airplane has a Lycoming O-360 and is now using 100 weight oil.
The airplane is going to stay in Virginia for several months.

Question 1:

To the pilots that fly in this, or similar areas, would you recommend
switching to a multiweight oil? I've asked two mechanics, one said that I
should definitely switch the oil and the other said that 100 weight would be
fine and that I would have to just let the engine warm up longer.

Question 2:

If the answer to the above question is to change the oil, should I have it
changed before the trip up from Florida, or wait until I'm here in Virginia?

Question 3:

Where is a good place to buy oil online or somewhere in Virginia? I can't
seem to locate an oil distributor in Virginia that will sell aviation oil by
the case to individuals. I've looked into the usual on-line culprits,
Aircraft Spruce, Chief, etc. They seem to be about the same price.

Question 4:

Okay, this one is only sorta oil related. Should I look into a preheater?
The airplane will be housed in a non-heated hangar. If you think
pre-heating is necessary for the Virginia winter weather, should it be just
a sump heater or should I get the core heater too?

Thank you for your informative inputs.

[zatatime]

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 23:39:54 GMT, "
> wrote:

>Hey folks, I am going to ferrying an airplane from Florida to Virginia next
>week. This airplane has a Lycoming O-360 and is now using 100 weight oil.
>The airplane is going to stay in Virginia for several months.
>
>Question 1:
>
>To the pilots that fly in this, or similar areas, would you recommend
>switching to a multiweight oil? I've asked two mechanics, one said that I
>should definitely switch the oil and the other said that 100 weight would be
>fine and that I would have to just let the engine warm up longer.
>
I'd switch to 80. 100 will be a little heavy for most normal winters.
This winter has been exceptionally mild, so 100 will probably be fine
for the coming months.

>Question 2:
>
>If the answer to the above question is to change the oil, should I have it
>changed before the trip up from Florida, or wait until I'm here in Virginia?
If you change it, I'd change it before you leave. It's warmer in FL
and therefore won't be as much of a pain as trying to do it in the
cold.

>
>Question 3:
>
>Where is a good place to buy oil online or somewhere in Virginia? I can't
>seem to locate an oil distributor in Virginia that will sell aviation oil by
>the case to individuals. I've looked into the usual on-line culprits,
>Aircraft Spruce, Chief, etc. They seem to be about the same price.
No help on this one, sorry.

>
>Question 4:
>
>Okay, this one is only sorta oil related. Should I look into a preheater?
>The airplane will be housed in a non-heated hangar. If you think
>pre-heating is necessary for the Virginia winter weather, should it be just
>a sump heater or should I get the core heater too?
>
If you're plane is hangared I'd think a sump heater should be enough
to do the trick.

>Thank you for your informative inputs.
>
HTH.
z

[[email protected]]

wrote:
>
> Question 1:
>
> To the pilots that fly in this, or similar areas, would you recommend

> switching to a multiweight oil? I've asked two mechanics, one said
that I
> should definitely switch the oil and the other said that 100 weight
would be
> fine and that I would have to just let the engine warm up longer.
>

It depends on what temperature you'll be starting the engine. At
around 30F, Aeroshell 100 (i.e. SAE 50 weight) is almost a solid rather
than a liquid. It will take some time to get that stuff flowing
smoothly throughout the engine and in the meantime, your metal parts
may experience a lot of wear.

Here in Central AZ, I could get away with using 50 weight pretty much
year round. Problem is that I also fly to destinations that will be
quite cold when I'm starting the engine for the return flight. To be
on the safe side, I just switch to 15w-50 or 20w-50 in the winter. It
makes a big difference in the amount of (unpleasant) noise coming from
the engine after a cold temperature start.
John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Juan Jimenez]

" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Question 3:
>
> Where is a good place to buy oil online or somewhere in Virginia? I can't
> seem to locate an oil distributor in Virginia that will sell aviation oil
> by the case to individuals. I've looked into the usual on-line culprits,
> Aircraft Spruce, Chief, etc. They seem to be about the same price.

Believe it or not, some Sam's Club stores have aviation oil. The one I used
to go to in North Richland Hills, TX had it by the case.

[Matt Barrow]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> wrote:
> >
> > Question 1:
> >
> > To the pilots that fly in this, or similar areas, would you recommend
>
> > switching to a multiweight oil? I've asked two mechanics, one said
> that I
> > should definitely switch the oil and the other said that 100 weight
> would be
> > fine and that I would have to just let the engine warm up longer.
> >
>
> It depends on what temperature you'll be starting the engine. At
> around 30F, Aeroshell 100 (i.e. SAE 50 weight) is almost a solid rather
> than a liquid. It will take some time to get that stuff flowing
> smoothly throughout the engine and in the meantime, your metal parts
> may experience a lot of wear.
>
> Here in Central AZ, I could get away with using 50 weight pretty much
> year round. Problem is that I also fly to destinations that will be
> quite cold when I'm starting the engine for the return flight. To be
> on the safe side, I just switch to 15w-50 or 20w-50 in the winter. It
> makes a big difference in the amount of (unpleasant) noise coming from
> the engine after a cold temperature start.
> John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

Reiff or Tanus? Of course, as you mentioned it's not always possible to plug
those in when you get to your destination.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[nrp]

Under questioning a Lycoming service rep once admitted that too thin
oil is probably much less damaging than too thick oil.

There was a Texas twin many years ago at Aspen that left with a
cylinder preheat and start with 50 weight oil on a cold morning. Both
engines shelled out on takeoff & all were killed (or so the story
went).

Don't plan on ever starting it with 50 weight oil under about 50 deg F
oil temp.

The problem isn't starting. It's getting an adequate fog or spray of
lubrication going inside the crankcase. A lot of things go against you
with thicker oil. On top of that, oil that blows over the oil pump
relief valve doesn't really have access to the hot areas of the engine.
At least that's my take on flying to colder areas.

[Jon A.]

I'll try that one. The Lewisville store hasn't had it, nor could they
seem to get it for me.

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 21:14:59 -0400, "Juan Jimenez"
> wrote:

>
" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>> Question 3:
>>
>> Where is a good place to buy oil online or somewhere in Virginia? I can't
>> seem to locate an oil distributor in Virginia that will sell aviation oil
>> by the case to individuals. I've looked into the usual on-line culprits,
>> Aircraft Spruce, Chief, etc. They seem to be about the same price.
>
>Believe it or not, some Sam's Club stores have aviation oil. The one I used
>to go to in North Richland Hills, TX had it by the case.
>
>
>

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
"Juan Jimenez" > wrote:

> " > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > Question 3:
> >
> > Where is a good place to buy oil online or somewhere in Virginia? I can't
> > seem to locate an oil distributor in Virginia that will sell aviation oil
> > by the case to individuals. I've looked into the usual on-line culprits,
> > Aircraft Spruce, Chief, etc. They seem to be about the same price.
>
> Believe it or not, some Sam's Club stores have aviation oil. The one I used
> to go to in North Richland Hills, TX had it by the case.


The price has gone up at Sam's Club. Here in Daytona Beach, 100W used to
be $24/case; now it is $32; 15W50 used to be $36, now it is $50/case.

Yep -- Sam's Club has Aeroshell here -- even available in 55-gallon
drums.

[Doug]

Aeroshell W100 oil is not 100 weight oil. It is 50 weight. Aeroshell
W80 is 40 weight.
The website for shell oil:
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=aviation-en&FC2=/aviation-en/html/iwgen/productservice/aeroshelllubricants/pistonengineoils/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/aviation-en/html/iwgen/productservice/aeroshelllubricants/pistonengineoils/aeroshelloilsw65w80_10081019.html

Very confusing on Shell's part to name the oil the way they did.
Personally, I am a fan of multiweight oil unless you are running in a
climate where it never gets below 50 degrees for starting the airplane.
Multiweight oil gives better lubrication on cold startups. Even if you
live in a warm climate, what if you travel to a colder one, park on the
ramp and cold start?

[G.R. Patterson III]

" wrote:
>
> To the pilots that fly in this, or similar areas, would you recommend
> switching to a multiweight oil?

I'm a little bit further north, but I would go to multigrade.

> If the answer to the above question is to change the oil, should I have it
> changed before the trip up from Florida, or wait until I'm here in Virginia?

In Florida. It'll be a lot more comfortable to work there, and multigrade
handles the heat just as well as 100 does.

> Where is a good place to buy oil online or somewhere in Virginia? I can't
> seem to locate an oil distributor in Virginia that will sell aviation oil by
> the case to individuals.

That's odd. Most Shell distributors don't have problems doing this. Anyway, I
sometimes buy from http://www.oil-store.com

> Okay, this one is only sorta oil related. Should I look into a preheater?
> The airplane will be housed in a non-heated hangar.

I would go with something like a 100 watt light bulb tucked under the cowl. I
don't think you need something as elaborate as a Tannis.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[Matt Barrow]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> > Okay, this one is only sorta oil related. Should I look into a
preheater?
> > The airplane will be housed in a non-heated hangar.
>
> I would go with something like a 100 watt light bulb tucked under the
cowl. I
> don't think you need something as elaborate as a Tannis.

In Virginia during the winter? What does the temp drop to out there? Only a
light bulb? Even with a thermal cover that sounds like lighting a room with
a candle.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[Juan Jimenez]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> In Virginia during the winter? What does the temp drop to out there? Only
> a
> light bulb? Even with a thermal cover that sounds like lighting a room
> with
> a candle.

Bad analogy. Candles and similar concoctions have worked just fine to light
up rooms for thousands of years, and continue to work just fine for quite a
few people on the planet. :)

Ever put your hand on a hot light bulb? Given a nice cover, I would think
the bulb would do a great job of keeping the engine cozy during those long
winter nights....

[Matt Barrow]

"Juan Jimenez" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > In Virginia during the winter? What does the temp drop to out there?
Only
> > a
> > light bulb? Even with a thermal cover that sounds like lighting a room
> > with
> > a candle.
>
> Bad analogy. Candles and similar concoctions have worked just fine to
light
> up rooms for thousands of years, and continue to work just fine for quite
a
> few people on the planet. :)

Gee...then why did Edison bother to invent the light bulb, and why in hell
did we develop central heating?

> Ever put your hand on a hot light bulb? Given a nice cover, I would think
> the bulb would do a great job of keeping the engine cozy during those long
> winter nights....

Have you even put your hand on a hot engine housing?


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[Juan Jimenez]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> Gee...then why did Edison bother to invent the light bulb

He hated his sister Sylvania, who made a fortune in the candle business.

> and why in hell did we develop central heating?

Probably for reasons that have nothing to do with aviation oil and cold
days.

>> Ever put your hand on a hot light bulb? Given a nice cover, I would think
>> the bulb would do a great job of keeping the engine cozy during those
>> long
>> winter nights....
>
> Have you even put your hand on a hot engine housing?

Matt, think about what you are saying, please. Oil doesn't have to be at
_engine operating_ temperature to ensure that when the engine starts, it
starts to do its job quicker than if it where thickened by low temperature.
No commercial engine heater brings oil to anywhere near normal flight
operating temps. They just warm it up to something approaching room
temperature so it will flow easier when the engine starts. The only reason
you buy a commercial engine/sump heater is because you want the process to
go faster, but you can accomplish the same goal by imparting the same energy
to the engine compartment, just a little bit at a time, overnight, with a
cozy blanket over it to keep all those happy, excited, bouncing molecules in
one place. :)

...and to answer your question, yes, hundreds of times in the last 30 years
or so since I started flying. Goes with the territory.

Juan

[Matt Barrow]

"Juan Jimenez" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Gee...then why did Edison bother to invent the light bulb
>
> He hated his sister Sylvania, who made a fortune in the candle business.
>
> > and why in hell did we develop central heating?
>
> Probably for reasons that have nothing to do with aviation oil and cold
> days.

For very similar reasons.

[rest of babble snipped]

--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[Dave Stadt]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Juan Jimenez" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > >
> > > In Virginia during the winter? What does the temp drop to out there?
> Only
> > > a
> > > light bulb? Even with a thermal cover that sounds like lighting a room
> > > with
> > > a candle.
> >
> > Bad analogy. Candles and similar concoctions have worked just fine to
> light
> > up rooms for thousands of years, and continue to work just fine for
quite
> a
> > few people on the planet. :)
>
> Gee...then why did Edison bother to invent the light bulb, and why in hell
> did we develop central heating?
>
> > Ever put your hand on a hot light bulb? Given a nice cover, I would
think
> > the bulb would do a great job of keeping the engine cozy during those
long
> > winter nights....
>
> Have you even put your hand on a hot engine housing?
>
>
> --
> Matt
> ---------------------
> Matthew W. Barrow
> Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
> Montrose, CO


Actually Mattt a 100W bulb will keep a well covered engine toasty warm down
into the teens. Edison's invention is better at generating heat than light.
That's why so many alternatives to the incandescent bulb have been invented.

[Juan Jimenez]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> For very similar reasons.
>
> [rest of babble snipped]

Ooo! Another candidate for the twit bucket! Off you go! <rofl!>

<plonk!>

[Matt Barrow]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
>
> Actually Mattt a 100W bulb will keep a well covered engine toasty warm
down
> into the teens. Edison's invention is better at generating heat than
light.
> That's why so many alternatives to the incandescent bulb have been
invented.

Really? Just what do you consider "toasty warm" and what do you consider
"well covered"?

Got some test data?


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[kage]

>
> Got some test data?
>
>
> --
> Matt
> ---------------------
> Matthew W. Barrow
> Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
> Montrose, CO

Yes, I do.

A 100 watt light bulb keeps the IO-520D in my Cessna 185 at 20 deg F over
ambient. That's with a couple of sleeping bags tossed over the cowling.

Karl
"Curator" N185KG

[David Lesher]

>>Believe it or not, some Sam's Club stores have aviation oil. The one I used
>>to go to in North Richland Hills, TX had it by the case.

Find the SKU's or similar that they use; that will help others
get same...

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