Pitot Static 411 413 followup post

[A Lieberman]

Well, I finally got my plane to another place to get my .411 and 413 pitot
static / transponder check, and it went from bad to worse.....

First person inspecting said everything was fine except for the VSI not
being hooked into the static system.

I take it to the new place (where I had it done 2 years ago) and they said
my transponder altitude encoder was off, and could not be adjusted, either
needs an overhaul or replacement, altimeter needs adjustment and overhaul.

I am just amazed at the wide differences of opinions.

My choices were, overhaul what I have, replace with an overhauled unit or a
brand new transponder. This is in order of expense with the first being
the lowest expense.

After talking with a couple of people, I decided to go with overhaul what I
got, as replacing it with another overhauled unit may be buying somebody
else's problem. For the Altimeter, I kinda expected it, since it was about
40 feet off when I compared field elevation to the altimeter setting, so no
surprises with that.

Transponder and Altimeter sent to Wichita for the overhaul, hope to be back
in the air early next week. Total cost, probably $1000.00 after all is
said and done.

Allen

[Mike Rapoport]

A new encoder is only $160.

Mike
MU-2


"A Lieberman" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I finally got my plane to another place to get my .411 and 413 pitot
> static / transponder check, and it went from bad to worse.....
>
> First person inspecting said everything was fine except for the VSI not
> being hooked into the static system.
>
> I take it to the new place (where I had it done 2 years ago) and they said
> my transponder altitude encoder was off, and could not be adjusted, either
> needs an overhaul or replacement, altimeter needs adjustment and overhaul.
>
> I am just amazed at the wide differences of opinions.
>
> My choices were, overhaul what I have, replace with an overhauled unit or
> a
> brand new transponder. This is in order of expense with the first being
> the lowest expense.
>
> After talking with a couple of people, I decided to go with overhaul what
> I
> got, as replacing it with another overhauled unit may be buying somebody
> else's problem. For the Altimeter, I kinda expected it, since it was
> about
> 40 feet off when I compared field elevation to the altimeter setting, so
> no
> surprises with that.
>
> Transponder and Altimeter sent to Wichita for the overhaul, hope to be
> back
> in the air early next week. Total cost, probably $1000.00 after all is
> said and done.
>
> Allen

[A Lieberman]

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 03:56:36 GMT, Mike Rapoport wrote:

> A new encoder is only $160.
>
> Mike
> MU-2

Mike,

Is the encoder a separate component of the transponder?

Or am I paying labor for it to be installed into the transponder?

If I remember correctly, the estimate was about $400 for the overhaul of
the transponder, which I thought the encoder was inside the unit? I just
remember something like $600 for both, and I figured labor would jack it up
to $1000.

Allen

[Denny]

Bend over, grab ankles...
Next time check with the group before spending money... From my POV,
the best solution would have been to purchase a new encoder (per Mike)
and a new altimeter (per me - never, never, never OH an instrument that
can kill you, when brand new is jsut a few bucks more!) and pay the
mechanic 'one time' to pull the old and replace with the new... Then
the old items can probably be sold to an instrument overhaul shop as
cores, recovering a few bucks... or on ebay ;>()

Incidently, my encoder (ACK) older than the hills, mounted in a junker
Apache, with a ham fisted, incompetent, for a pilot, was adjusted and
passed the IFR check just fine a few weeks back... The altimeter was
brand new... It passed the check also...
denny

[Ron Natalie]

A Lieberman wrote:

> I take it to the new place (where I had it done 2 years ago) and they said
> my transponder altitude encoder was off, and could not be adjusted, either
> needs an overhaul or replacement, altimeter needs adjustment and overhaul.
>

Older encoders (especially certain manufacturers) have good days and bad
days. Oddly, I'm still using the same ancient TransCal that came with
my airplane (I thin this and the ASI is the only piece of original
instrumetnation I have) and it's still going strong. My altimeter
was progressively wonky at higher altitudes until one money hungry
FBO ripped me off for a new one (and oddly the core, which I got no
credit for disappeared). Particularly galling in that incident was
that they quoted me a price to pull everything out and bench test it
(which I've never had any other shop do). After the altimeter failed
they wanted an additional $200 to put the new one in. I figured if
the thing was on the bench already in the initial estimate, the only
thing additional that needed to be done an extra line in the log book
(which generally is covered when you pay list price for things).
The only thing that I can say is that I've dissed these guys baddly
enough in local forums (along with the local traffic reporting plane
company owner) that we've taken a good chunk of their business away.

[Mike Rapoport]

The encoder is indeed separate from the transponder. It is a little box
attached to the static system that converts pressure information to an
electrical format that the transponder can understand.

Mike
MU-2


"A Lieberman" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 03:56:36 GMT, Mike Rapoport wrote:
>
>> A new encoder is only $160.
>>
>> Mike
>> MU-2
>
> Mike,
>
> Is the encoder a separate component of the transponder?
>
> Or am I paying labor for it to be installed into the transponder?
>
> If I remember correctly, the estimate was about $400 for the overhaul of
> the transponder, which I thought the encoder was inside the unit? I just
> remember something like $600 for both, and I figured labor would jack it
> up
> to $1000.
>
> Allen

[[email protected]]

Transpondets typically don't have any bearing on what altitude is being
sent out.
Most probably its a encoder problem. 90% or more can be adjusted back
into spec.
You can have a 125ft difference between the encoder and what the
altimeter is indicating.
Come to Dallas and I'll do a realistic ifr certification for you.
Did the shop tell you to send in your transponder?
Altimeters can be adjusted also.
There is a little Kollsman window adjustment which can change the
barometer set ie 29.92 and what the altimeter reads.
It's not legal to adjust unless your certified to do it. But Stevie
Wonder could do it in his sleep.

Dave

A Lieberman wrote:
> Well, I finally got my plane to another place to get my .411 and 413 pitot
> static / transponder check, and it went from bad to worse.....
>
> First person inspecting said everything was fine except for the VSI not
> being hooked into the static system.
>
> I take it to the new place (where I had it done 2 years ago) and they said
> my transponder altitude encoder was off, and could not be adjusted, either
> needs an overhaul or replacement, altimeter needs adjustment and overhaul.
>
> I am just amazed at the wide differences of opinions.
>
> My choices were, overhaul what I have, replace with an overhauled unit or a
> brand new transponder. This is in order of expense with the first being
> the lowest expense.
>
> After talking with a couple of people, I decided to go with overhaul what I
> got, as replacing it with another overhauled unit may be buying somebody
> else's problem. For the Altimeter, I kinda expected it, since it was about
> 40 feet off when I compared field elevation to the altimeter setting, so no
> surprises with that.
>
> Transponder and Altimeter sent to Wichita for the overhaul, hope to be back
> in the air early next week. Total cost, probably $1000.00 after all is
> said and done.
>
> Allen

[dave]

Transpondets typically don't have any bearing on what altitude is being
sent out.
Most probably its a encoder problem. 90% or more can be adjusted back
into spec.
You can have a 125ft difference between the encoder and what the
altimeter is indicating.
Come to Dallas and I'll do a realistic ifr certification for you.
Did the shop tell you to send in your transponder?
Altimeters can be adjusted also.
There is a little Kollsman window adjustment which can change the
barometer set ie 29.92 and what the altimeter reads.
It's not legal to adjust unless your certified to do it. But Stevie
Wonder could do it in his sleep.

Dave

Mike Rapoport wrote:
> The encoder is indeed separate from the transponder. It is a little box
> attached to the static system that converts pressure information to an
> electrical format that the transponder can understand.
>
> Mike
> MU-2
>
>
> "A Lieberman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 03:56:36 GMT, Mike Rapoport wrote:
>>
>>
>>>A new encoder is only $160.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>MU-2
>>
>>Mike,
>>
>>Is the encoder a separate component of the transponder?
>>
>>Or am I paying labor for it to be installed into the transponder?
>>
>>If I remember correctly, the estimate was about $400 for the overhaul of
>>the transponder, which I thought the encoder was inside the unit? I just
>>remember something like $600 for both, and I figured labor would jack it
>>up
>>to $1000.
>>
>>Allen
>
>
>

[Matt Barrow]

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> The encoder is indeed separate from the transponder. It is a little box
> attached to the static system that converts pressure information to an
> electrical format that the transponder can understand.

How does it correct for variations in pressure, say, from 29.80 to 30.50HG?

[A Lieberman]

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 22:06:08 -0500, wrote:

> Come to Dallas and I'll do a realistic ifr certification for you.
> Did the shop tell you to send in your transponder?

Dave,

I sure appreciate your offer!

The transponder and altimeter went to a shop in Wichita KS, so doubt a trip
to Dallas would be in my future. I am planning in August to come out to
Meacham International.

Sure wish I would have posted before making decisions. Sounding like I
took a very expensive route!

Allen

[John Godwin]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in
:

> How does it correct for variations in pressure, say, from 29.80 to
> 30.50HG?

It doesn't. Encoded altitude is always based on 29.92 and is adjusted
at the ATC site.

--

[Ron Natalie]

wrote:
> Transpondets typically don't have any bearing on what altitude is being
> sent out.
> Most probably its a encoder problem. 90% or more can be adjusted back
> into spec.

Most often it's a cabling problem.

[Matt Barrow]

"John Godwin" > wrote in message
8.6...
> "Matt Barrow" > wrote in
> :
>
> > How does it correct for variations in pressure, say, from 29.80 to
> > 30.50HG?
>
> It doesn't. Encoded altitude is always based on 29.92 and is adjusted
> at the ATC site.
>

Oh!

(Thanks)