C182 / SMA Jet Fuel Engine?

[Mike]

Is there any information available about the new SMA jet fuel engines
that are being offered for the C182?

I'm curious if maintenance would be much of an issue. Are there many
shops that can handle working on them?

Is it a replace only like the Centurion 1.7 on the Diamond airplanes?
Or can it be overhauled to get flying again?

Cost for an annual?

How would they perform at high altitudes? - Colorado rockies region for
example.

Any way lots of questions so if any one knows where I might be able to
find information it would sure be appreciated. I've already checked the
www.smaengines.com web site and it is just a little light on
information.

Thanks

[Thomas Borchert]

Mike,

> Is there any information available about the new SMA jet fuel engines
> that are being offered for the C182?

They are? Actually being offered, I mean. Not just written about.

>
> I'm curious if maintenance would be much of an issue. Are there many
> shops that can handle working on them?

I don't know of any kind of maintenance network - quite contrary to the
Centurions.

>
> Is it a replace only like the Centurion 1.7 on the Diamond airplanes?
> Or can it be overhauled to get flying again?

I think I read about overhauls.

> I've already checked the
> www.smaengines.com web site and it is just a little light on
> information.

There might be a reason...


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[NW_PILOT]

it's just a Diesel Engine


"Mike" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Is there any information available about the new SMA jet fuel engines
> that are being offered for the C182?
>
> I'm curious if maintenance would be much of an issue. Are there many
> shops that can handle working on them?
>
> Is it a replace only like the Centurion 1.7 on the Diamond airplanes?
> Or can it be overhauled to get flying again?
>
> Cost for an annual?
>
> How would they perform at high altitudes? - Colorado rockies region for
> example.
>
> Any way lots of questions so if any one knows where I might be able to
> find information it would sure be appreciated. I've already checked the
> www.smaengines.com web site and it is just a little light on
> information.
>
> Thanks
>

[George Patterson]

Mike wrote:

> Is there any information available about the new SMA jet fuel engines
> that are being offered for the C182?

Prowl around http://www.smaengines.com .

> I'm curious if maintenance would be much of an issue. Are there many
> shops that can handle working on them?

Not in the U.S.. There's only one or two 182s flying with that engine in the
States. The French STC was granted only last July, and the company doesn't
expect the FAA to grant an STC until later this year.

> Is it a replace only like the Centurion 1.7 on the Diamond airplanes?
> Or can it be overhauled to get flying again?

They're targeting a 3,000 hour TBO. Since they use the term TBO, not TBR, it
seems the company intends to support overhauls.

> Cost for an annual?

As much as you have. :-)
Seriously, SMA claims maintenance costs will be lower than gas. Since that tends
to be true of diesels, they're probably right.

> How would they perform at high altitudes? - Colorado rockies region for
> example.

Should be about the same as a turbocharged gas engine of similar torque.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Montblack]

("George Patterson" wrote)
[snip]
>> Is there any information available about the new SMA jet fuel engines
>> that are being offered for the C182?
>
> Prowl around http://www.smaengines.com .


For others, more than for the OP, who already knows this:.

http://www.centurion-engines.com/c17/c17_retro.htm
295 lb engine (incl. all accessories for operation)

Looks like FAA approval 'for all, not just a few' is just around the
corner - maybe.

http://www.dieselair.com/
Found this too


Montblack

[Mike]

After a bit more digging here is some more information I have found:

Current cost of the C182Q kit is about $77K soon to be
reduced by "at least $10K" so around $67K

Installation, at the dealer I contacted, runs about $9K.
Or about 120-hrs @ $75/hr.

So the installed price should be about $76K. Which
includes almost everything from the firewall forward.


"Normal" recurring maintenance is expected to be:
100 hour oil changes.
200 hour fuel filter change and glow plug inspection.
500 hour compression check
With estimated time at 3~5 hrs.

Annuals were - Quote:
"Your overall annual inspection will be much
less then an avgas engine by virtue of the
fact that the engine contains 70% less parts
and therefore there is virtually nothing left
to change out or replace."
So how much that will really mean ... ?

Overhaul is estimated to run around $24K+ based
on the 3000-hr TBO. So in the perfect world, I
could either do 2 "cheaper" overhauls on the
SMC or 3 regular overhauls on a Lyc or 3+ on
a TCM engine over a 6000hr life.

If you look at burning less cheaper (if available) JetA fuel than avgas
over the life of the TBO. Might save a few bucks. Also saving on price
of a few other pieces and parts (sparkplugs, etc.) there might be a few
more bucks saved. And starting off with a new prop.

So since I am rather new at this how much does an overhaul on a regular
avgas burning C182 engine run?

It almost looks like it might be something to look a little closer at.

???

[xyzzy]

Mike wrote:

>
> So since I am rather new at this how much does an overhaul on a regular
> avgas burning C182 engine run?
>

The current Aviation Consumer magazine has an article about the SMA 182.
They also did a general review of 182 series in May quoted overhaul
cost of $17K for the continentals and $23K for the Lycs.
--
"You can support the troops but not the president"
--Representative Tom Delay (R-TX), during the Kosovo war.

[George Patterson]

Mike wrote:

> Annuals were - Quote:
> "Your overall annual inspection will be much
> less then an avgas engine by virtue of the
> fact that the engine contains 70% less parts
> and therefore there is virtually nothing left
> to change out or replace."
> So how much that will really mean ... ?

Probably this. The annual inspection on a gas engine is basically to run a
compression test, clean and rotate the plugs, check and adjust the ignition
timing, and check the air filter. All shops in this area also change the oil and
filter, though the FAA doesn't require it. Of course, an AD check is also run.

I would bet that the inspection for the diesel will involve running a
compression test (whether it's been 500 hours or not), cleaning the glow plugs,
checking the air filter, and changing the oil and filter. Plus an AD check. That
basically will save you the cost of the magneto work (since there aren't any).
The time needed to check the glow plugs will also be less than messing around
with 8 spark plugs.

Now, if the FAA will allow owners/operators to actually follow the 100, 200, and
500 hour inspection periods recommended by the manufacturer, you would see a
*big* decrease in costs, but I bet they won't.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[NW_PILOT]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:rI1%e.17210$L15.10478@trndny01...
> Mike wrote:
>
> > Is there any information available about the new SMA jet fuel engines
> > that are being offered for the C182?
>
> Prowl around http://www.smaengines.com .
>
> > I'm curious if maintenance would be much of an issue. Are there many
> > shops that can handle working on them?
>
> Not in the U.S.. There's only one or two 182s flying with that engine in
the
> States. The French STC was granted only last July, and the company doesn't
> expect the FAA to grant an STC until later this year.
>
> > Is it a replace only like the Centurion 1.7 on the Diamond airplanes?
> > Or can it be overhauled to get flying again?
>
> They're targeting a 3,000 hour TBO. Since they use the term TBO, not TBR,
it
> seems the company intends to support overhauls.
>
> > Cost for an annual?
>
> As much as you have. :-)
> Seriously, SMA claims maintenance costs will be lower than gas. Since that
tends
> to be true of diesels, they're probably right.
>
> > How would they perform at high altitudes? - Colorado rockies region for
> > example.
>
> Should be about the same as a turbocharged gas engine of similar torque.
>
> George Patterson
> Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your
neighbor.
> It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

Yea, and put a turbo on that Diesel Engine get better performance and better
fuel economy

[NW_PILOT]

You forgot about the fuel injection system inspection? Injectors fail become
leaky or clogged


"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:lWe%e.22$DO2.21@trndny06...
> Mike wrote:
>
> > Annuals were - Quote:
> > "Your overall annual inspection will be much
> > less then an avgas engine by virtue of the
> > fact that the engine contains 70% less parts
> > and therefore there is virtually nothing left
> > to change out or replace."
> > So how much that will really mean ... ?
>
> Probably this. The annual inspection on a gas engine is basically to run a
> compression test, clean and rotate the plugs, check and adjust the
ignition
> timing, and check the air filter. All shops in this area also change the
oil and
> filter, though the FAA doesn't require it. Of course, an AD check is also
run.
>
> I would bet that the inspection for the diesel will involve running a
> compression test (whether it's been 500 hours or not), cleaning the glow
plugs,
> checking the air filter, and changing the oil and filter. Plus an AD
check. That
> basically will save you the cost of the magneto work (since there aren't
any).
> The time needed to check the glow plugs will also be less than messing
around
> with 8 spark plugs.
>
> Now, if the FAA will allow owners/operators to actually follow the 100,
200, and
> 500 hour inspection periods recommended by the manufacturer, you would see
a
> *big* decrease in costs, but I bet they won't.
>
> George Patterson
> Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your
neighbor.
> It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[john smith]

Put a bio-diesel kit on it and you can fly almost for free.
Startup on the ramp and everyone will wonder where the Chinese
restaurant is.

A coworker has a diesel pickup with a 150 gallon tank in the bed (20
mpg, 3000 miles per fillup). He hasn't bought fuel in the past year. He
goes to oriental restaurants and dumpster dives for the used oil. He
filters it and adds it to his tank.

[[email protected]]

john smith > wrote:
> Put a bio-diesel kit on it and you can fly almost for free.
> Startup on the ramp and everyone will wonder where the Chinese
> restaurant is.

> A coworker has a diesel pickup with a 150 gallon tank in the bed (20
> mpg, 3000 miles per fillup). He hasn't bought fuel in the past year. He
> goes to oriental restaurants and dumpster dives for the used oil. He
> filters it and adds it to his tank.

Somehow always driving around with a half ton of fuel seems
counterproductive in a number of ways.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[George Patterson]

NW_PILOT wrote:

> Yea, and put a turbo on that Diesel Engine get better performance and better
> fuel economy

Uh ... Just what do you think that is hanging under the engine?

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[George Patterson]

NW_PILOT wrote:

> You forgot about the fuel injection system inspection? Injectors fail become
> leaky or clogged

Well, according to SMA, the injector *setting* has to be checked every 500
hours. No note about anything more extensive in that system.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Montblack]

("john smith" Wrote)
> Put a bio-diesel kit on it and you can fly almost for free.
> Startup on the ramp and everyone will wonder where the Chinese
> restaurant is.
>
> A coworker has a diesel pickup with a 150 gallon tank in the bed (20
> mpg, 3000 miles per fillup). He hasn't bought fuel in the past year. He
> goes to oriental restaurants and dumpster dives for the used oil. He
> filters it and adds it to his tank.


That's a GreaseCar. BioDiesl is something else, although the two terms are
trying to merge.

http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/definitions/default.shtm
BioDiesel

http://www.greasecar.com/index.cfm
GreaseCar - These need to be started (and stopped) running 'non-grease'
diesel fuel.


MontBlack

[nuke]

Here's one for sale:

http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=90840


In article om>,
"Mike" > wrote:

> Is there any information available about the new SMA jet fuel engines
> that are being offered for the C182?
>
> I'm curious if maintenance would be much of an issue. Are there many
> shops that can handle working on them?
>
> Is it a replace only like the Centurion 1.7 on the Diamond airplanes?
> Or can it be overhauled to get flying again?
>
> Cost for an annual?
>
> How would they perform at high altitudes? - Colorado rockies region for
> example.
>
> Any way lots of questions so if any one knows where I might be able to
> find information it would sure be appreciated. I've already checked the
> www.smaengines.com web site and it is just a little light on
> information.
>
> Thanks

[Montblack]

("nuke" wrote)
> Here's one for sale:
>
> http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=90840


(SMA Diesel installed in a 1980 182Q Skylane)
Seller says 6.0 gal @ 65%
Link says 6.9 gal @ 64%

Someone is lying!!! :-)

(Seller)
SMA SR305-230 Engine
230 HP Turbo-Diesel Engine
Burns JetA Fuel
3000 Hours TBO
Full Power up to 10k Feet
Burns 6 GPH at 65% Cruise Power Settings

SMA info is in middle doccument thumbnail link


Montblack

[George Patterson]

nuke wrote:
> Here's one for sale:
>
> http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=90840

Well, just my opinion, but I think the cowling looks a lot better than the stock
aircraft.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Darrel Toepfer]

George Patterson wrote:
> nuke wrote:
>
>> Here's one for sale:
>>
>> http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=90840
>
> Well, just my opinion, but I think the cowling looks a lot better than
> the stock aircraft.

But, where'd they steal that throttle quadrant from?

[Guy Byars]

That quadrant is cool, but looks like it would be impossible to see the
rudder and elevator trim indicators.


"Darrel Toepfer" > wrote in message
...
> George Patterson wrote:
> > nuke wrote:
> >
> >> Here's one for sale:
> >>
> >> http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=90840
> >
> > Well, just my opinion, but I think the cowling looks a lot better than
> > the stock aircraft.
>
> But, where'd they steal that throttle quadrant from?

[Dave Butler]

Darrel Toepfer wrote:
> George Patterson wrote:
>
>> nuke wrote:
>>
>>> Here's one for sale:
>>>
>>> http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=90840
>>
>>
>> Well, just my opinion, but I think the cowling looks a lot better than
>> the stock aircraft.
>
>
> But, where'd they steal that throttle quadrant from?

'54 Mercury :) http://www.valenticlassics.com/images/1954_MERCURY_INT1.JPG