Still in Shock

[Chuck]

My Archer is in annual and I ask the A&P to check on replacing the trim
switch on the yoke. It has been getting a little hard to get it to
activate in the "down" direction.

He just called and said Piper wanted about $325 for the SWITCH. I
looked in Aircraft Spruce and a non PMA switch is about $25.

Manual trim isn't that bad but it seems a shame to lose a function
because of "attempted rape".

Chuck

[Peter R.]

Chuck > wrote:

> Manual trim isn't that bad but it seems a shame to lose a function
> because of "attempted rape".

I don't know how much actual instrument flying you do, but in my Bonanza,
which is flown quite regularly in the Northeast US IMC, the trim wheel is
just low enough on the panel that it makes flying without a trim switch in
IMC a tad uncomfortable.

Last week my pitch computer of the AP was removed by avionics for some
maintenance. Not only did they INOP the AP, but they also disabled the
electric trim. On a round trip flight to across New England in IMC I
discovered how much I really missed that switch.


--
Peter

[Frank Stutzman]

Chuck > wrote:
> My Archer is in annual and I ask the A&P to check on replacing the trim
> switch on the yoke. It has been getting a little hard to get it to
> activate in the "down" direction.
>
> He just called and said Piper wanted about $325 for the SWITCH. I
> looked in Aircraft Spruce and a non PMA switch is about $25.

Looks like Piper is starting to take pricing hints from Raytheon.

In a simular situation, I know people who have pulled the switch, found
the product number and original manufacturer of it and went pawing
though their favorite electronic parts catalog (Mouser, Allied, etc).
Found an exact match, but the price was only a couple of dollars.
Approved part? Absolutely not. Could anyone ever tell the differance?
Absolutely not. Would *I* ever actually use such a thing? Oh, no, never.
Not me. My 57 year old plane has completely factory authorized parts on
it and I challenge anyone to prove otherwise.

I don't have electic trim. Never have had it. Unlike Peter R. with his
Bonanza, I don't find using the trim wheel difficult in my Bonanza. On
the other hand, I suspect he has a lot newer plane than I do.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

[Peter R.]

Frank Stutzman > wrote:

> Unlike Peter R. with his
> Bonanza, I don't find using the trim wheel difficult in my Bonanza. On
> the other hand, I suspect he has a lot newer plane than I do.

1973 V35B. And, as a reminder, I was referring to hand flying in IMC with
the manual trim wheel.

--
Peter

[Robert M. Gary]

Gee, I'm not sure why are you surprised. I just paid $400 for a $2
piece of rubber for my Mooney.

[Michael]

> He just called and said Piper wanted about $325 for the SWITCH. I
> looked in Aircraft Spruce and a non PMA switch is about $25.

Even $25 is way too much. As an A&P and practicing engineer, I would
never suggest that you simply pull the switch out, find one that looks
and functions the same (good sources include Mouser, Digikey, and
Newark), and install it. After all, that would not be an approved
part, so you would not be able to make the proper logbook entry.

Remember, safety is all about complying with the regulations. And you
can't spell complying without lying.

Michael

[RST Engineering]

"Michael" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> He just called and said Piper wanted about $325 for the SWITCH. I
>> looked in Aircraft Spruce and a non PMA switch is about $25.
>
> Even $25 is way too much. As an A&P and practicing engineer, I would
> never suggest that you simply pull the switch out, find one that looks
> and functions the same (good sources include Mouser, Digikey, and
> Newark), and install it. After all, that would not be an approved
> part, so you would not be able to make the proper logbook entry.
>

Nor would this A&P IA, engineer, and avionics author ever recommend such an
approach. No siree, not me, not hardly ever. "Switch? What switch. It
must have been put on there before I bought the airplane."

Jim

[Frank Stutzman]

Peter R. > wrote:
> Frank Stutzman > wrote:
>
>> Unlike Peter R. with his
>> Bonanza, I don't find using the trim wheel difficult in my Bonanza. On
>> the other hand, I suspect he has a lot newer plane than I do.
>
> 1973 V35B.

And mine is a 1949 A35. There are quite a bit of differances in the
Bonanzas over the years.

> And, as a reminder, I was referring to hand flying in IMC with
> the manual trim wheel.

As was I. I'm one of those scary guys who flys a high performance single
IFR without even (*gasp*) an autopilot. I must confess, though, that I
tend to keep the IFR flights on the relatively mild side.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

[Robert M. Gary]

We had a Mooney shop that figured out that Mooney gear actuator gears
are actually the same as some Cessna flap gears (the manufactor shipped
some to Cessna and some to Mooney). For about 3 years you couldn't get
Mooney gears so this shop grabbed a bunch of the Cessna ones. A friend
of mine bought some and about a month later got a call from the FAA in
Sacramento. They knew that Mooney gears could not be found and wanted
to know how he got his. The FAA was hoping most Mooneys would just be
grounded. Grounding the GA fleet would improve the aviation safety
record.

-Robert

[Peter R.]

Frank Stutzman > wrote:

> As was I. I'm one of those scary guys who flys a high performance single
> IFR without even (*gasp*) an autopilot. I must confess, though, that I
> tend to keep the IFR flights on the relatively mild side.

IMC the entire route from Syracuse to Boston Logan airport, on an Angel
Flight with a hesitant mother and child as passengers? Single pilot I
must confess that I prefer an AP. :)



--
Peter

[Ray Andraka]

Chuck wrote:
> My Archer is in annual and I ask the A&P to check on replacing the trim
> switch on the yoke. It has been getting a little hard to get it to
> activate in the "down" direction.
>
> He just called and said Piper wanted about $325 for the SWITCH. I
> looked in Aircraft Spruce and a non PMA switch is about $25.
>
> Manual trim isn't that bad but it seems a shame to lose a function
> because of "attempted rape".
>
> Chuck
>
Piper made two different trim switches. One is a round switch with a
ridged slide. That switch is made by Mason Switch, but it is not one
that they keep in stock. You can order one from them, but it will run
you pretty close to the $325 that Piper charges for it. Most of the
cost is tooling set-up fees. If you have more than one made, the
incremental cost for the additional switches is quite small (on the
order of $10). One of the guys on the Cherokee Pilots Association chat
did this a while back and got 10 switches, which he sold at his cost.
There was recently several people on the Chat looking to buy switches,
so you might join if not already a member and get on the bandwagon.

The other trim switch they made was a custom assembly that contained a
pair of standard microswitches and a superstructure that holds a plastic
push button rocker. I don't know who made that one, and have not found
anything like it in any of the electronic catalogs.

[Javier]

RST Engineering wrote:
> "Michael" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>>> He just called and said Piper wanted about $325 for the SWITCH. I
>>> looked in Aircraft Spruce and a non PMA switch is about $25.
>> Even $25 is way too much. As an A&P and practicing engineer, I would
>> never suggest that you simply pull the switch out, find one that looks
>> and functions the same (good sources include Mouser, Digikey, and
>> Newark), and install it. After all, that would not be an approved
>> part, so you would not be able to make the proper logbook entry.
>>
>
> Nor would this A&P IA, engineer, and avionics author ever recommend such an
> approach. No siree, not me, not hardly ever. "Switch? What switch. It
> must have been put on there before I bought the airplane."

Neither would this aspiring A&P replace the stall microswitch with one
from Radio Shack (switches drawer, left column, second from the bottom).

No way.

-jav

[Mark Hansen]

On 05/25/06 13:16, Javier wrote:
> RST Engineering wrote:
>> "Michael" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>>> He just called and said Piper wanted about $325 for the SWITCH. I
>>>> looked in Aircraft Spruce and a non PMA switch is about $25.
>>> Even $25 is way too much. As an A&P and practicing engineer, I would
>>> never suggest that you simply pull the switch out, find one that looks
>>> and functions the same (good sources include Mouser, Digikey, and
>>> Newark), and install it. After all, that would not be an approved
>>> part, so you would not be able to make the proper logbook entry.
>>>
>>
>> Nor would this A&P IA, engineer, and avionics author ever recommend such an
>> approach. No siree, not me, not hardly ever. "Switch? What switch. It
>> must have been put on there before I bought the airplane."
>
> Neither would this aspiring A&P replace the stall microswitch with one
> from Radio Shack (switches drawer, left column, second from the bottom).
>
> No way.
>
> -jav

That reminds me of the movie "The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming!"
"... do not, under any circumstances, insert the ammunition magazine into the
mechanism ... and never move this lever to its full forward position to lock
the magazine in place ..." ;-)



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

[Thomas Borchert]

RST,

> . "Switch? What switch. It
> must have been put on there before I bought the airplane."
>

The most important prayer for this atheist: "Dear god, please let me
never run out of excuses."

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[john smith]

> > 1973 V35B.

> And mine is a 1949 A35. There are quite a bit of differances in the
> Bonanzas over the years.

Differences such as "piano keys" for switches? :-))
I'll bet you play that panel pretty well.

[Frank Stutzman]

john smith > wrote:
>> > 1973 V35B.
>
>> And mine is a 1949 A35. There are quite a bit of differances in the
>> Bonanzas over the years.
>
> Differences such as "piano keys" for switches? :-))
> I'll bet you play that panel pretty well.

For the typical Bonanza that is the same vintage as mine, thats true.
However, some former owners of my plane spent way too much time and money
redoing the panel.

See:
http://www.stutzman.com/frank/flying/n494b/panel_b.jpg

I've carried on the tradition with some avionics upgrades (a Garmin 430,
audio panel and a JPI), but they were added after the above picture
was taken. I've been in one of those with the piano keys, but never have
flown one.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

[john smith]

In article >,
Frank Stutzman > wrote:

> For the typical Bonanza that is the same vintage as mine, thats true.
> However, some former owners of my plane spent way too much time and money
> redoing the panel.
> See:
> http://www.stutzman.com/frank/flying/n494b/panel_b.jpg

WOW!!!! Never would I guess that is a '49!

[[email protected]]

I thought that was in "1941". Dan Ackroyd's character telling the hapless
homeowner what "not" to do with the anti-aircraft gun the Army was
positioning on his property.
Scott Wilson

On 25-May-2006, Mark Hansen > wrote:

> That reminds me of the movie "The Russians are coming, the Russians are
> coming!"
> "... do not, under any circumstances, insert the ammunition magazine into
> the
> mechanism ... and never move this lever to its full forward position to
> lock
> the magazine in place ..." ;-)

[Ray Andraka]

Ray Andraka wrote:
> Chuck wrote:
>
>> My Archer is in annual and I ask the A&P to check on replacing the trim
>> switch on the yoke. It has been getting a little hard to get it to
>> activate in the "down" direction.
>>
>> He just called and said Piper wanted about $325 for the SWITCH. I
>> looked in Aircraft Spruce and a non PMA switch is about $25.
>>
>> Manual trim isn't that bad but it seems a shame to lose a function
>> because of "attempted rape".
>>
>> Chuck
>>
> Piper made two different trim switches. One is a round switch with a
> ridged slide. That switch is made by Mason Switch, but it is not one
> that they keep in stock. You can order one from them, but it will run
> you pretty close to the $325 that Piper charges for it. Most of the
> cost is tooling set-up fees. If you have more than one made, the
> incremental cost for the additional switches is quite small (on the
> order of $10). One of the guys on the Cherokee Pilots Association chat
> did this a while back and got 10 switches, which he sold at his cost.
> There was recently several people on the Chat looking to buy switches,
> so you might join if not already a member and get on the bandwagon.
>
> The other trim switch they made was a custom assembly that contained a
> pair of standard microswitches and a superstructure that holds a plastic
> push button rocker. I don't know who made that one, and have not found
> anything like it in any of the electronic catalogs.

Dave Wheeler on the Cherokee Pilot Association's Chat is putting
together an order for switches on Tuesday. If you are looking or one,
now is the time to sign up for CPA and get on the list.

[Mark Hansen]

On 05/27/06 01:52, wrote:
> I thought that was in "1941". Dan Ackroyd's character telling the hapless
> homeowner what "not" to do with the anti-aircraft gun the Army was
> positioning on his property.
> Scott Wilson

Yep, you're right. It was "1941".

>
> On 25-May-2006, Mark Hansen > wrote:
>
>> That reminds me of the movie "The Russians are coming, the Russians are
>> coming!"
>> "... do not, under any circumstances, insert the ammunition magazine into
>> the
>> mechanism ... and never move this lever to its full forward position to
>> lock
>> the magazine in place ..." ;-)



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA