FAA advisory voids IFR certification for GPS's!!!

[Prime]

I'm surprised nobody has posted about this.

Many GPS panel models are "no longer" IFR certified! Anybody else affected
by this, posted on AOPA web site? It's courtesy your FAA!

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070524gps.html

We have a Garmin 300XL, which is one of the units supposedly no longer IFR
compliant. Needless to say all three of us in the partnership are besides
ourselves. We only put this in our plane a couple of years ago!

And how are you handling it? I assume that there's a good chance enough
complaints will cause this to be reversed.

I heard a birdie suggest to me that it was good so many pilots are unaware
of this, they might go ahead and keep flying IFR with those units! The
reasons are nitpicky for voiding the units, it is not a safety of flight
issue.

Prime

[Rich]

Prime wrote:
> I'm surprised nobody has posted about this.
>
> Many GPS panel models are "no longer" IFR certified! Anybody else affected
> by this, posted on AOPA web site? It's courtesy your FAA!
>
> http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070524gps.html
>
> We have a Garmin 300XL, which is one of the units supposedly no longer IFR
> compliant. Needless to say all three of us in the partnership are besides
> ourselves. We only put this in our plane a couple of years ago!
>
> And how are you handling it? I assume that there's a good chance enough
> complaints will cause this to be reversed.
>
> I heard a birdie suggest to me that it was good so many pilots are unaware
> of this, they might go ahead and keep flying IFR with those units! The
> reasons are nitpicky for voiding the units, it is not a safety of flight
> issue.
>
> Prime

Latest word is that the AOPA jumped the gun on this one. The new AC
addresses some RNAV (as in Flight Management Systems) specific Arrival
and Departure procedures, and NOT the enroute use of a GPS to identify
DME and NDB fixes, nor the use of approach approved GPS's for approaches.

Keep studying the news reports, but it seems to me that we who have
approach certified GPS's can continue to use them as we have been using
them.

Rich

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Sat, 26 May 2007 19:39:50 -0400, Rich > wrote:

>Prime wrote:
>> I'm surprised nobody has posted about this.
>>
>> Many GPS panel models are "no longer" IFR certified! Anybody else affected
>> by this, posted on AOPA web site? It's courtesy your FAA!
>>
>> http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2007/070524gps.html
>>
>> We have a Garmin 300XL, which is one of the units supposedly no longer IFR
>> compliant. Needless to say all three of us in the partnership are besides
>> ourselves. We only put this in our plane a couple of years ago!
>>
>> And how are you handling it? I assume that there's a good chance enough
>> complaints will cause this to be reversed.
>>
>> I heard a birdie suggest to me that it was good so many pilots are unaware
>> of this, they might go ahead and keep flying IFR with those units! The
>> reasons are nitpicky for voiding the units, it is not a safety of flight
>> issue.
>>
>> Prime
>
>Latest word is that the AOPA jumped the gun on this one. The new AC
>addresses some RNAV (as in Flight Management Systems) specific Arrival
>and Departure procedures, and NOT the enroute use of a GPS to identify
>DME and NDB fixes, nor the use of approach approved GPS's for approaches.
>
>Keep studying the news reports, but it seems to me that we who have
>approach certified GPS's can continue to use them as we have been using
>them.
>
>Rich

Look at AIM 1-2-3. Use of Area Navigation (RNAV) Equipment on Conventional
Procedures and Routes

....
b. Allowable RNAV Equipment. Subject to the requirements in this paragraph,
operators may use the following types of RNAV equipment as a substitute or
alternate means of navigation guidance:

1. An RNAV system with GPS or DME/DME/IRU inputs, installed in accordance
with appropriate airworthiness installation requirements, and compliant
with the equipment provisions of AC 90-100, U.S. Terminal and En Route Area
Navigation (RNAV) Operations. Standalone GPS systems, compliant with AC
90-100, are included in this set of equipment. A list of compliant systems
is available under "Policies & Guidance" at the following website:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afs/afs400/afs410/

2. An RNAV system with GPS or DME/DME/IRU inputs, lacking the capability to
automatically perform course-to-fix legs (also called path terminators),
installed in accordance with appropriate airworthiness installation
requirements, and otherwise compliant with the equipment provisions of AC
90-100. This subset of equipment includes some standalone GPS systems and
flight management systems that are authorized for instrument flight rules
(IFR) en route and terminal operations but not fully compliant with AC
90-100. However, these systems may not be used as a substitute or alternate
means of navigation guidance on segments of an instrument approach,
departure, or arrival procedure defined by a VOR course. This restriction
does not apply to routes, which may be selected by route name or
constructed by "stringing" together two or more waypoints from an onboard
navigation database. Many of these systems are identified on the
aforementioned website.

....

and the rest of it gets even more confusing. However, I believe it is the
reference to AC 90-100 compliance that is causing a lot of the angst.
--ron

[Peter R.]

On 5/26/2007 6:38:35 PM, Prime wrote:

> I'm surprised nobody has posted about this.

Then you don't read rec.aviation.piloting. It was first posted back on 5/25:

http://tinyurl.com/29zgky

--
Peter

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter R. ]
> Posted At: Saturday, May 26, 2007 8:23 PM
> Posted To: rec.aviation.owning
> Conversation: FAA advisory voids IFR certification for GPS's!!!
> Subject: Re: FAA advisory voids IFR certification for GPS's!!!
>...
>
> Then you don't read rec.aviation.piloting. It was first posted back on
> 5/25:
>...
> Peter

Pete,
I quit reading r.a.p. because of the tremendous amount of petty
bickering that goes on over there - especially surrounding MSXMANIAC and
his ilk. Even though I kill-filed his address and that of some other
similar trolls, the regular posters could not do the same and
continuously kept his threads alive (even though I couldn't see the
trolls' posts).

I finally had to give up, mostly because I don't have an
unlimited amount of time to read completely fruitless topics, and don't
want to spend the time downloading that junk. I'm not surprised to see
that others may be doing the same.

[Peter R.]

On 5/27/2007 1:46:07 PM, "Jim Carter" wrote:

> I quit reading r.a.p. because of the tremendous amount of petty
> bickering that goes on over there - especially surrounding MSXMANIAC and
> his ilk.

Ah, sorry about that. I made the false assumption that anyone reading this
group also reads r.a.p.

I, too, was close to bailing due to the same reason when instead I started
using a newsreader that allows responses of killfiled posters to be ignored.
Now I don't see that poster or any responses and the group is actually quite
useful again.

--
Peter

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

Pete,
I'm using MAPILabs NNTP plugin for Outlook. It struggles with
kill files for news articles but works most of the time. I'd like to
know what reader you're using. I'm restricted to a Win environment on
this laptop because of some application requirements, and I don't
typically have my Linux platform with me while I travel.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter R. ]
>...
> I, too, was close to bailing due to the same reason when instead I
started
> using a newsreader that allows responses of killfiled posters to be
> ignored.
> Now I don't see that poster or any responses and the group is actually
> quite
> useful again.
>
> --
> Peter

[Steve Foley[_2_]]

I posted this back on Feb 1. Here it is again - works with Outlook Express

I found the following completely eliminates mxsmanic from usenet, along with
any responses to him. Using this, I don't need to killfile anyone else. Only
responses to polluted threads are gone.

Tools -> Message Rules -> News -> -> New:


Apply this rule after the message arrives
Where the From line contains 'mxsmanic'
Mark the message as ignored


View -> Current View -> Customize Current View:


View -> Current View -> Hide Read or Ignored Messages
View -> Current View -> Customize Current View


Un-check 'Where the message has been read'


Change the name to 'Hide Ignored Messages'


View -> Current View -> Make Sure 'Hide Ignored Messages' is checked.



"Jim Carter" > wrote in message
news:000b01c7a134$ef810590$4b01a8c0@omnibook6100.. .
> Pete,
> I'm using MAPILabs NNTP plugin for Outlook. It struggles with
> kill files for news articles but works most of the time. I'd like to
> know what reader you're using. I'm restricted to a Win environment on
> this laptop because of some application requirements, and I don't
> typically have my Linux platform with me while I travel.
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Peter R. ]
>>...
>> I, too, was close to bailing due to the same reason when instead I
> started
>> using a newsreader that allows responses of killfiled posters to be
>> ignored.
>> Now I don't see that poster or any responses and the group is actually
>> quite
>> useful again.
>>
>> --
>> Peter
>

[Peter R.]

On 5/28/2007 10:32:09 AM, "Jim Carter" wrote:

> I'd like to know what reader you're using.

I use a Windows-based reader called Newsman Pro, which is actually a payware
product found here: www.newsmanpro.com

This newsreader may be more feature-rich than you prefer, though. Instead,
you would be served well by using Outlook Express and Steve Foley's
directions (posted previously here - thanks, Steve) of how to configure it to
block posters and their replies.

Good luck and hope to see you back in r.a.p. We need some more good signal
makers there. :)

--
Peter

[Jim Carter[_1_]]

I was using OE for my school work at Univ of Phoenix, but it seems to
maintain a separate address book. I've yet to figure out how to maintain
a single address book for Outlook and Outlook Express. If that could be
done then I'd go back to OE for all my news services. I prefer the
single AB because I use a Blackberry and sync Outlook between my home
and work laptops.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter R. ]
> Posted At: Monday, May 28, 2007 1:06 PM
> Posted To: rec.aviation.owning
> Conversation: FAA advisory voids IFR certification for GPS's!!!
> Subject: Re: Off-topic - Was: Re: FAA advisory voids IFR certification
for
> GPS's!!!
>
> On 5/28/2007 10:32:09 AM, "Jim Carter" wrote:
>
> > I'd like to know what reader you're using.
>
> I use a Windows-based reader called Newsman Pro, which is actually a
> payware
> product found here: www.newsmanpro.com
>
> This newsreader may be more feature-rich than you prefer, though.
Instead,
> you would be served well by using Outlook Express and Steve Foley's
> directions (posted previously here - thanks, Steve) of how to
configure it
> to
> block posters and their replies.
>
> Good luck and hope to see you back in r.a.p. We need some more good
signal
> makers there. :)
>
> --
> Peter

[Blueskies]

"Steve Foley" > wrote in message
...
>I posted this back on Feb 1. Here it is again - works with Outlook Express
>
> I found the following completely eliminates mxsmanic from usenet, along with
> any responses to him. Using this, I don't need to killfile anyone else. Only
> responses to polluted threads are gone.
>
> Tools -> Message Rules -> News -> -> New:
>
>
> Apply this rule after the message arrives
> Where the From line contains 'mxsmanic'
> Mark the message as ignored
>
>
> View -> Current View -> Customize Current View:
>
>
> View -> Current View -> Hide Read or Ignored Messages
> View -> Current View -> Customize Current View
>
>
> Un-check 'Where the message has been read'
>
>
> Change the name to 'Hide Ignored Messages'
>
>
> View -> Current View -> Make Sure 'Hide Ignored Messages' is checked.
>

Hmmm, I've done all that and still replies to 'MX' get through and clog me up...

[john smith[_2_]]

In article <000e01c7a162$45d878b0$4b01a8c0@omnibook6100>,
"Jim Carter" > wrote:

> I was using OE for my school work at Univ of Phoenix, but it seems to
> maintain a separate address book. I've yet to figure out how to maintain
> a single address book for Outlook and Outlook Express. If that could be
> done then I'd go back to OE for all my news services. I prefer the
> single AB because I use a Blackberry and sync Outlook between my home
> and work laptops.

Mozilla's Thunderbird will also work with UoP.

[Peter Clark]

On Mon, 28 May 2007 14:05:57 -0400, "Peter R." >
wrote:

>On 5/28/2007 10:32:09 AM, "Jim Carter" wrote:
>
>> I'd like to know what reader you're using.
>
>I use a Windows-based reader called Newsman Pro, which is actually a payware
>product found here: www.newsmanpro.com
>
>This newsreader may be more feature-rich than you prefer, though. Instead,
>you would be served well by using Outlook Express and Steve Foley's
>directions (posted previously here - thanks, Steve) of how to configure it to
>block posters and their replies.
>
>Good luck and hope to see you back in r.a.p. We need some more good signal
>makers there. :)

I like Forte's Agent.

www.forteinc.com