NAZI Oil Post Error

[robert arndt]

During the war Germany operated 16 Coal Gasification Plants that
produced synthetic fuel. 85% of German aviation ran off synthetics, as
did much of the German war machine in general.
The SS Scientific Branch further developed coal-burning powerplants as
well as exploring grain alcohol fuels, Hydrogen peroxide turbines, and
free energy machines like Hans Coler's designs as well as Schaubergers
vortex motors that ran off water, air, and a crystalline substance.
What you are quoting is pre-war oil sales to Germany and Germany's
strategic reserves during the opening of the war. As the war
progressed, however, Germany was dependent on synthetics, captured oil
fields, and coal burning engines. Some German Kubelwagens were even
converted over to coal burning engines while others were used to power
searchlights and run machinery.

Rob

p.s. After the war one of the German coal gasification plants was
actually transferred to Texas and research-operated for years before
being shut down and filed away by the US oil industry. Synthetics have
always been possible but the avg price of a barrel of synthetics is at
least double or triple the price of a barrel of crude oil. That's why
we are still dependent on foreign oil.

[Keith Willshaw]

"robert arndt" > wrote in message
om...
> During the war Germany operated 16 Coal Gasification Plants that
> produced synthetic fuel. 85% of German aviation ran off synthetics, as
> did much of the German war machine in general.
> The SS Scientific Branch further developed coal-burning powerplants as
> well as exploring grain alcohol fuels, Hydrogen peroxide turbines, and
> free energy machines like Hans Coler's designs as well as Schaubergers
> vortex motors that ran off water, air, and a crystalline substance.
> What you are quoting is pre-war oil sales to Germany and Germany's
> strategic reserves during the opening of the war. As the war
> progressed, however, Germany was dependent on synthetics, captured oil
> fields, and coal burning engines. Some German Kubelwagens were even
> converted over to coal burning engines while others were used to power
> searchlights and run machinery.
>
> Rob
>
> p.s. After the war one of the German coal gasification plants was
> actually transferred to Texas and research-operated for years before
> being shut down and filed away by the US oil industry. Synthetics have
> always been possible but the avg price of a barrel of synthetics is at
> least double or triple the price of a barrel of crude oil. That's why
> we are still dependent on foreign oil.

Germany wasnt the only nation to build large synthetic fuel
plants. ICI operated a number in the UKduring WW2.

Keith

[robert arndt]

"Keith Willshaw" > wrote in message >...
> "robert arndt" > wrote in message
> om...
> > During the war Germany operated 16 Coal Gasification Plants that
> > produced synthetic fuel. 85% of German aviation ran off synthetics, as
> > did much of the German war machine in general.
> > The SS Scientific Branch further developed coal-burning powerplants as
> > well as exploring grain alcohol fuels, Hydrogen peroxide turbines, and
> > free energy machines like Hans Coler's designs as well as Schaubergers
> > vortex motors that ran off water, air, and a crystalline substance.
> > What you are quoting is pre-war oil sales to Germany and Germany's
> > strategic reserves during the opening of the war. As the war
> > progressed, however, Germany was dependent on synthetics, captured oil
> > fields, and coal burning engines. Some German Kubelwagens were even
> > converted over to coal burning engines while others were used to power
> > searchlights and run machinery.
> >
> > Rob
> >
> > p.s. After the war one of the German coal gasification plants was
> > actually transferred to Texas and research-operated for years before
> > being shut down and filed away by the US oil industry. Synthetics have
> > always been possible but the avg price of a barrel of synthetics is at
> > least double or triple the price of a barrel of crude oil. That's why
> > we are still dependent on foreign oil.
>
> Germany wasnt the only nation to build large synthetic fuel
> plants. ICI operated a number in the UKduring WW2.
>
> Keith

True enough... yet Germany had the most advanced synthetic fuel
programs in the world by 1945.

Rob

[Chad Irby]

In article >,
(robert arndt) wrote:

> True enough... yet Germany had the most advanced synthetic fuel
> programs in the world by 1945.

Because they couldn't get any oil in the normal ways. Allied bombers
blowing up Ploesti didn't help.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

[Tank Fixer]

In article >, teuton263
@aol.com says...
> "Keith Willshaw" > wrote in message >...
> > "robert arndt" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > During the war Germany operated 16 Coal Gasification Plants that
> > > produced synthetic fuel. 85% of German aviation ran off synthetics, as
> > > did much of the German war machine in general.
> > > The SS Scientific Branch further developed coal-burning powerplants as
> > > well as exploring grain alcohol fuels, Hydrogen peroxide turbines, and
> > > free energy machines like Hans Coler's designs as well as Schaubergers
> > > vortex motors that ran off water, air, and a crystalline substance.
> > > What you are quoting is pre-war oil sales to Germany and Germany's
> > > strategic reserves during the opening of the war. As the war
> > > progressed, however, Germany was dependent on synthetics, captured oil
> > > fields, and coal burning engines. Some German Kubelwagens were even
> > > converted over to coal burning engines while others were used to power
> > > searchlights and run machinery.
> > >
> > > Rob
> > >
> > > p.s. After the war one of the German coal gasification plants was
> > > actually transferred to Texas and research-operated for years before
> > > being shut down and filed away by the US oil industry. Synthetics have
> > > always been possible but the avg price of a barrel of synthetics is at
> > > least double or triple the price of a barrel of crude oil. That's why
> > > we are still dependent on foreign oil.
> >
> > Germany wasnt the only nation to build large synthetic fuel
> > plants. ICI operated a number in the UKduring WW2.
> >
> > Keith
>
> True enough... yet Germany had the most advanced synthetic fuel
> programs in the world by 1945.
>

And hundreds of aircraft sitting on the runways without any fuel.


--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

[Alan Minyard]

On 19 Oct 2003 15:11:17 -0700, (robert arndt) wrote:

>"Keith Willshaw" > wrote in message >...
>> "robert arndt" > wrote in message
>> om...
>> > During the war Germany operated 16 Coal Gasification Plants that
>> > produced synthetic fuel. 85% of German aviation ran off synthetics, as
>> > did much of the German war machine in general.
>> > The SS Scientific Branch further developed coal-burning powerplants as
>> > well as exploring grain alcohol fuels, Hydrogen peroxide turbines, and
>> > free energy machines like Hans Coler's designs as well as Schaubergers
>> > vortex motors that ran off water, air, and a crystalline substance.
>> > What you are quoting is pre-war oil sales to Germany and Germany's
>> > strategic reserves during the opening of the war. As the war
>> > progressed, however, Germany was dependent on synthetics, captured oil
>> > fields, and coal burning engines. Some German Kubelwagens were even
>> > converted over to coal burning engines while others were used to power
>> > searchlights and run machinery.
>> >
>> > Rob
>> >
>> > p.s. After the war one of the German coal gasification plants was
>> > actually transferred to Texas and research-operated for years before
>> > being shut down and filed away by the US oil industry. Synthetics have
>> > always been possible but the avg price of a barrel of synthetics is at
>> > least double or triple the price of a barrel of crude oil. That's why
>> > we are still dependent on foreign oil.
>>
>> Germany wasnt the only nation to build large synthetic fuel
>> plants. ICI operated a number in the UKduring WW2.
>>
>> Keith
>
>True enough... yet Germany had the most advanced synthetic fuel
>programs in the world by 1945.
>
>Rob

Because they HAD to. They were cut off from all natural sources.

Al Minyard

[Ron]

>Because they HAD to. They were cut off from all natural sources.
>
>Al Minyard

Why could they have not just flown the oil in, say like in supersonic ME-262s,
or the Sanger bomber, or in Disc aircraft?

:):):)


Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

[Keith Willshaw]

"Alan Minyard" > wrote in message
...
> On 19 Oct 2003 15:11:17 -0700, (robert arndt) wrote:
>

>
> Because they HAD to. They were cut off from all natural sources.
>

Well yes and no

They started building those plants a long time before the war began
so as to be independent of foreign suppliers, memories of the
blockade of WW1 were doubtless a significant factor but
its worth recalling that similar plants were built in Britain which
wasnt cut off.

In those days both Germany and Britain had ample coal reserves
so being less reliant on foreign oil suppliers was seen as good
strategy.

Keith

[James Hart]

Keith Willshaw wrote:
> "Alan Minyard" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 19 Oct 2003 15:11:17 -0700, (robert arndt)
>> wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> Because they HAD to. They were cut off from all natural sources.
>>
>
> Well yes and no
>
> They started building those plants a long time before the war began
> so as to be independent of foreign suppliers, memories of the
> blockade of WW1 were doubtless a significant factor but
> its worth recalling that similar plants were built in Britain which
> wasnt cut off.
>
> In those days both Germany and Britain had ample coal reserves
> so being less reliant on foreign oil suppliers was seen as good
> strategy.

What are we looking at now, supersonic coal-fired Me 262s :)

--
James...
http://www.jameshart.co.uk/

[Keith Willshaw]

"James Hart" > wrote in message
...
> Keith Willshaw wrote:
> > "Alan Minyard" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On 19 Oct 2003 15:11:17 -0700, (robert arndt)
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >
> >>
> >> Because they HAD to. They were cut off from all natural sources.
> >>
> >
> > Well yes and no
> >
> > They started building those plants a long time before the war began
> > so as to be independent of foreign suppliers, memories of the
> > blockade of WW1 were doubtless a significant factor but
> > its worth recalling that similar plants were built in Britain which
> > wasnt cut off.
> >
> > In those days both Germany and Britain had ample coal reserves
> > so being less reliant on foreign oil suppliers was seen as good
> > strategy.
>
> What are we looking at now, supersonic coal-fired Me 262s :)
>

Close

The fuel for the Me-262's as for all German aircraft was
synthesised from coal.

Keith

[John Mullen]

"Keith Willshaw" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Alan Minyard" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On 19 Oct 2003 15:11:17 -0700, (robert arndt) wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > Because they HAD to. They were cut off from all natural sources.
> >
>
> Well yes and no
>
> They started building those plants a long time before the war began
> so as to be independent of foreign suppliers, memories of the
> blockade of WW1 were doubtless a significant factor but
> its worth recalling that similar plants were built in Britain which
> wasnt cut off.
>
> In those days both Germany and Britain had ample coal reserves
> so being less reliant on foreign oil suppliers was seen as good
> strategy.

Britain had the best coal in the world, and, thanks to Churchill, the Iraqi
and Kuwaiti oil as well, subject to the not-to-be-discounted difficulty of
getting it safely to where it was needed.

Interested in the UK coal to oil facilities. Would you care to enlarge?

South Africa was pretty big on this in the 80's I believe, but for much the
same reasons as Germany in WW2 ISTR; difficulty importing it and no natural
reserves to speak of.

Do you think there's anything in the OP's suggestion that the US would have
exported, or allowed the export of US oil? Venezeluan oil?

Myself I'd say it would have been difficult to prove. Interesting though.

John

[John Mullen]

"John Mullen" > wrote in message
...
> "Keith Willshaw" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Alan Minyard" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On 19 Oct 2003 15:11:17 -0700, (robert arndt) wrote:
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > Because they HAD to. They were cut off from all natural sources.
> > >
> >
> > Well yes and no
> >
> > They started building those plants a long time before the war began
> > so as to be independent of foreign suppliers, memories of the
> > blockade of WW1 were doubtless a significant factor but
> > its worth recalling that similar plants were built in Britain which
> > wasnt cut off.
> >
> > In those days both Germany and Britain had ample coal reserves
> > so being less reliant on foreign oil suppliers was seen as good
> > strategy.
>
> Britain had the best coal in the world, and, thanks to Churchill, the
Iraqi
> and Kuwaiti oil as well, subject to the not-to-be-discounted difficulty of
> getting it safely to where it was needed.
>
> Interested in the UK coal to oil facilities. Would you care to enlarge?
>
> South Africa was pretty big on this in the 80's I believe, but for much
the
> same reasons as Germany in WW2 ISTR; difficulty importing it and no
natural
> reserves to speak of.
>
> Do you think there's anything in the OP's suggestion that the US would
have
> exported, or allowed the export of US oil? Venezeluan oil?

Sorry, I saw after posting this that you'd already answered this in another
post.

John

[Keith Willshaw]

"John Mullen" > wrote in message
...
> "Keith Willshaw" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Alan Minyard" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On 19 Oct 2003 15:11:17 -0700, (robert arndt) wrote:
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > Because they HAD to. They were cut off from all natural sources.
> > >
> >
> > Well yes and no
> >
> > They started building those plants a long time before the war began
> > so as to be independent of foreign suppliers, memories of the
> > blockade of WW1 were doubtless a significant factor but
> > its worth recalling that similar plants were built in Britain which
> > wasnt cut off.
> >
> > In those days both Germany and Britain had ample coal reserves
> > so being less reliant on foreign oil suppliers was seen as good
> > strategy.
>
> Britain had the best coal in the world, and, thanks to Churchill, the
Iraqi
> and Kuwaiti oil as well, subject to the not-to-be-discounted difficulty of
> getting it safely to where it was needed.
>
> Interested in the UK coal to oil facilities. Would you care to enlarge?
>

There was a major plant on ICI Billingham, I watched them
demolish it in the early 70's. It was extremely amusing as
what looked to be simple brick buildings were actually
reinforced concrete with a brick skin.

The look on the crane drivers face as his wrecking ball
bounced off the wall was priceless.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nationonfilm/topics/chemical-industry/

> South Africa was pretty big on this in the 80's I believe, but for much
the
> same reasons as Germany in WW2 ISTR; difficulty importing it and no
natural
> reserves to speak of.
>
> Do you think there's anything in the OP's suggestion that the US would
have
> exported, or allowed the export of US oil? Venezeluan oil?
>

They did allow some exports of oil to Spain but only after
the Spaniards closed their waters to German U-Boats
and began interning crews , that was in 1943 or so.

> Myself I'd say it would have been difficult to prove. Interesting though.
>

Keith

[John Mullen]

"Keith Willshaw" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John Mullen" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Keith Willshaw" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Alan Minyard" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > On 19 Oct 2003 15:11:17 -0700, (robert arndt)
wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Because they HAD to. They were cut off from all natural sources.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Well yes and no
> > >
> > > They started building those plants a long time before the war began
> > > so as to be independent of foreign suppliers, memories of the
> > > blockade of WW1 were doubtless a significant factor but
> > > its worth recalling that similar plants were built in Britain which
> > > wasnt cut off.
> > >
> > > In those days both Germany and Britain had ample coal reserves
> > > so being less reliant on foreign oil suppliers was seen as good
> > > strategy.
> >
> > Britain had the best coal in the world, and, thanks to Churchill, the
> Iraqi
> > and Kuwaiti oil as well, subject to the not-to-be-discounted difficulty
of
> > getting it safely to where it was needed.
> >
> > Interested in the UK coal to oil facilities. Would you care to enlarge?
> >
>
> There was a major plant on ICI Billingham, I watched them
> demolish it in the early 70's. It was extremely amusing as
> what looked to be simple brick buildings were actually
> reinforced concrete with a brick skin.
>
> The look on the crane drivers face as his wrecking ball
> bounced off the wall was priceless.
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/nationonfilm/topics/chemical-industry/

Fascinating. Thank you.

> > South Africa was pretty big on this in the 80's I believe, but for much
> the
> > same reasons as Germany in WW2 ISTR; difficulty importing it and no
> natural
> > reserves to speak of.
> >
> > Do you think there's anything in the OP's suggestion that the US would
> have
> > exported, or allowed the export of US oil? Venezeluan oil?
> >
>
> They did allow some exports of oil to Spain but only after
> the Spaniards closed their waters to German U-Boats
> and began interning crews , that was in 1943 or so.

That would make sense. I know Franco was always at great pains not to annoy
the Allies; must have really ****ed Hitler off after all the help he gave
him!

John

[Alan Minyard]

On 20 Oct 2003 18:17:40 GMT, (Ron) wrote:

>>Because they HAD to. They were cut off from all natural sources.
>>
>>Al Minyard
>
>Why could they have not just flown the oil in, say like in supersonic ME-262s,
>or the Sanger bomber, or in Disc aircraft?
>
>:):):)
>
>
>Ron
>Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

Well, I suppose they could have brought it in with their "Super XX|||
Sub. :-)

Al Minyard