Thinking about buying a Zodiac XLi

[Jay Maynard]

After years away from it, I'm in a position where I can think about getting
an airplane. I want to be able to travel with it, not just fly around the
patch. I'm a PP-ASEL with about 170 hours in 172/Warrior/Tiger-class
aircraft. I'd love to build, but my work has me away from home constantly,
so there's no way I could commit the needed time. I also have medical issues
that will require a special issuance medical; I've been thinking about
getting that for the past 6 months, but haven't been able to do anything
about it. I figure I'll need 5-10 hours of dual to get back in the groove.

All of that has me convinced I should buy an SLSA that will serve as an IFR
platform when I do deal with the medical. There are lots of SLSAs out there,
but only a precious few that can be flown legally IFR (at least I think
that's the case), with TSOd instruments and certificated engines, not to
mention capable avionics.

In addition, I think I want a metal airframe. Composites are great, but what
happens when it collects hangar damage? Since it's a factory aircraft, I
have to have an A&P do the repair, and how many A&Ps do composite repairs?
Especially since I live in the middle of nowhere, relatively speaking
(Fairmont, MN).

Finally, and for many of the same reasons, I's prefer an American-built
aircraft. The imports look good, but how many mechanics in rural Minnesota
can work on them? How long does it take to get parts that, for an American
aircraft, could be bought and shipped overnight from any of a dozen
suppliers?

So far, I've only seen one SLSA that fits this profile: the AMD Zodiac XLi.
There are a bunch of them out there that have been homebuilt; I don't know
how many completed ones AMD has sold. I like everything I've read so far. Of
course, that's just reading, not flying. I'm planning to visit the AMD
factory next week, look the place over, then look closely at the aircraft
and take a demo flight. What should I look for? Ask about? Try during the
demo?

What other aircraft should I look at? Am I full of prunes in my thinking
somewhere?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

[Gig601XLBuilder]

Jay Maynard wrote:
> After years away from it, I'm in a position where I can think about getting
> an airplane. I want to be able to travel with it, not just fly around the
> patch. I'm a PP-ASEL with about 170 hours in 172/Warrior/Tiger-class
> aircraft. I'd love to build, but my work has me away from home constantly,
> so there's no way I could commit the needed time. I also have medical issues
> that will require a special issuance medical; I've been thinking about
> getting that for the past 6 months, but haven't been able to do anything
> about it. I figure I'll need 5-10 hours of dual to get back in the groove.
>
> All of that has me convinced I should buy an SLSA that will serve as an IFR
> platform when I do deal with the medical. There are lots of SLSAs out there,
> but only a precious few that can be flown legally IFR (at least I think
> that's the case), with TSOd instruments and certificated engines, not to
> mention capable avionics.
>
> In addition, I think I want a metal airframe. Composites are great, but what
> happens when it collects hangar damage? Since it's a factory aircraft, I
> have to have an A&P do the repair, and how many A&Ps do composite repairs?
> Especially since I live in the middle of nowhere, relatively speaking
> (Fairmont, MN).
>
> Finally, and for many of the same reasons, I's prefer an American-built
> aircraft. The imports look good, but how many mechanics in rural Minnesota
> can work on them? How long does it take to get parts that, for an American
> aircraft, could be bought and shipped overnight from any of a dozen
> suppliers?
>
> So far, I've only seen one SLSA that fits this profile: the AMD Zodiac XLi.
> There are a bunch of them out there that have been homebuilt; I don't know
> how many completed ones AMD has sold. I like everything I've read so far. Of
> course, that's just reading, not flying. I'm planning to visit the AMD
> factory next week, look the place over, then look closely at the aircraft
> and take a demo flight. What should I look for? Ask about? Try during the
> demo?
>
> What other aircraft should I look at? Am I full of prunes in my thinking
> somewhere?

I'm building an XL and have flown in three different 601s including the
Zenith demonstrator. It is a fun plane to fly with enough speed to be
used X-C travel. You don't mention where you are but there are several
601XLs being used as trainers at various FBOs. Look into that for your
dual and that should help you make your decision.

As far as the medical goes remember if you try for an fail to get your
special issuance you are grounded as far as LSA is concerned. So, if all
of your flying is going to fall under the LSA rules you might want to
think about not taking the chance of screwing that up. As a PPL sans
medical the only privileges you will be giving up are night and higher
than 10K feet.

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-01-04, Gig601XLBuilder > wrote:
> I'm building an XL and have flown in three different 601s including the
> Zenith demonstrator. It is a fun plane to fly with enough speed to be
> used X-C travel. You don't mention where you are but there are several
> 601XLs being used as trainers at various FBOs. Look into that for your
> dual and that should help you make your decision.

I'm in Fairmont, MN (FRM), 120 miles southwest of Minneapolis. The closest
school using the Zodiac appears to be in Holland, MI, a long day's drive
away. I suspect I'll be getting transition training from or through the
folks at AMD.

> As far as the medical goes remember if you try for an fail to get your
> special issuance you are grounded as far as LSA is concerned. So, if all
> of your flying is going to fall under the LSA rules you might want to
> think about not taking the chance of screwing that up. As a PPL sans
> medical the only privileges you will be giving up are night and higher
> than 10K feet.

This is why I'm going with an SLSA. I'll worry about the medical later, and
only if I know I'll get it. If I do, then I want whatever aircraft I get to
be able to serve me well with the upgraded privileges, which is why I'm
looking at the XLi. I don't want to have to sell the aircraft in order to
take advantage of the medical.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

[Vaughn Simon]

There is one for rent at my local airport (LNA) I have checked out in and
used for several hours. There are things I really like about it, and things I
don't. The superior visibility alone is almost worth it to me...almost. On
balance, I have happily gone back to the rental Cessnas. Be sure to get all of
those 5 or 10 hours in a Zodiac, and then you will know if it is the plane for
you. A few trips around the patch with a demo pilot won't do it.

I have reluctantly come to a conclusion about LSAs as our regulations
presently exist in the USA: If you want a plane with a bulletproof engine that
any small-plane A&P can fix, then you want an 0-200. If you want a full-tank,
fill-both-seats cross-country machine, then you need something powered by an
engine lighter than an 0-200; probably something like a 912. There is no free
lunch.

Where I fly, the Zodiac is the only rental that is not routinely sent out
with the tanks full.

Vaughn

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-01-05, Vaughn Simon > wrote:
> There is one for rent at my local airport (LNA) I have checked out in and
> used for several hours. There are things I really like about it, and things I
> don't. The superior visibility alone is almost worth it to me...almost. On
> balance, I have happily gone back to the rental Cessnas. Be sure to get all of
> those 5 or 10 hours in a Zodiac, and then you will know if it is the plane for
> you. A few trips around the patch with a demo pilot won't do it.

Okkay, so what don't you like about it? It's going to be tough for me to get
several hours in one.

> I have reluctantly come to a conclusion about LSAs as our regulations
> presently exist in the USA: If you want a plane with a bulletproof engine that
> any small-plane A&P can fix, then you want an 0-200. If you want a full-tank,
> fill-both-seats cross-country machine, then you need something powered by an
> engine lighter than an 0-200; probably something like a 912. There is no free
> lunch.

Hm. With a useful load of 550 pounds, and a 30-gallon tank, and me and my
roommate together weighing 350 pounds, that leaves 20 pounds of luggage,
enough for a weekend. What am I missing?

> Where I fly, the Zodiac is the only rental that is not routinely sent out
> with the tanks full.

Has it got tabs?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

[Vaughn Simon]

"Jay Maynard" > wrote in message
...
> On 2008-01-05, Vaughn Simon > wrote:
>> There is one for rent at my local airport (LNA) I have checked out in and
>> used for several hours. There are things I really like about it, and things
>> I
>> don't. The superior visibility alone is almost worth it to me...almost. On
>> balance, I have happily gone back to the rental Cessnas. Be sure to get all
>> of
>> those 5 or 10 hours in a Zodiac, and then you will know if it is the plane
>> for
>> you. A few trips around the patch with a demo pilot won't do it.
>
> Okkay, so what don't you like about it?

In general, the thing seems fragile and "fussy" to me. The seat is way too
uncomfortable for more than local flying. (It feels like the wing spar is
hitting you in the middle of the back) The canopy (which gives great visibility)
is a PITA. It almost takes two people to close it because you must spring it
into shape to get it to close on both latches. In my personal opinion (I come
from a glider and Cessna background so take this with a grain of salt) the thing
just needs more wing. It hates to climb and loves to come back down.

I like the control stick and the sensitive controls, but others hate it for
just that reason.

>It's going to be tough for me to get
> several hours in one.

How about a nice Florida vacation? PBFT has a nice Zodiac for rent in the
Palm Beach area. The flying weather is great during the winter.

>
>> I have reluctantly come to a conclusion about LSAs as our regulations
>> presently exist in the USA: If you want a plane with a bulletproof engine
>> that
>> any small-plane A&P can fix, then you want an 0-200. If you want a
>> full-tank,
>> fill-both-seats cross-country machine, then you need something powered by an
>> engine lighter than an 0-200; probably something like a 912. There is no
>> free
>> lunch.
>
> Hm. With a useful load of 550 pounds, and a 30-gallon tank, and me and my
> roommate together weighing 350 pounds, that leaves 20 pounds of luggage,
> enough for a weekend. What am I missing?

You are lucky, your average pair of USA pilots runs more like 380 pounds.
Also, just my flight bag can weigh 20 pounds. There are also other useful
weight-robbing things that you may not have considered, like engine oil and
various accessories.

>
>> Where I fly, the Zodiac is the only rental that is not routinely sent out
>> with the tanks full.
>
> Has it got tabs?

No, and because of the shape and tilt of the tanks it is hard to tell how
much is in them. The gauges on the Zodiac seem to be excellent, particularly
compared to the POS in Cessnas. I haven't had enough cross-country in the
Zodiac to know if they can truly be trusted. The over-center gas caps are a
PITA.

I don't mean to sound negative on the Zodiac, there are many things I like
about it. Just be sure to invest the time to properly shop around before making
such a big investment.

Vaughn


>

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-01-05, Vaughn Simon > wrote:
> I don't mean to sound negative on the Zodiac, there are many things I like
> about it. Just be sure to invest the time to properly shop around before making
> such a big investment.

Betcherass. That's why I'm looking for all of the opinions I can get.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

[Gig601XLBuilder]

Vaughn Simon wrote:

>(It feels like the wing spar is
> hitting you in the middle of the back)

Strange because the Spar is under your knees.

> The canopy (which gives great visibility)
> is a PITA. It almost takes two people to close it because you must spring it
> into shape to get it to close on both latches. In my personal opinion (I come
> from a glider and Cessna background so take this with a grain of salt) the thing
> just needs more wing. It hates to climb and loves to come back down.
>


You think it sucks to close you ought to try building it.


> I like the control stick and the sensitive controls, but others hate it for
> just that reason.
>

Are they making any of the factory built LSAs with dual stick?

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-01-07, Gig601XLBuilder > wrote:
> Vaughn Simon wrote:
>> I like the control stick and the sensitive controls, but others hate it for
>> just that reason.
> Are they making any of the factory built LSAs with dual stick?

It's listed as a standard option in the current price sheet.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

[[email protected]]

If I were in the market to buy a factory-built SLSA, I'd have to go
for the RANS S-19LS

http://www.rans.com/S19achievesSLSA.htm

It's not IFR however, but I'm not too keen on taking anything smaller
than something and less powerful than a C182, Mooney, Dakota or
Bonanza into IMC.

[Gig601XLBuilder]

Jay Maynard wrote:
> On 2008-01-07, Gig601XLBuilder > wrote:
>> Vaughn Simon wrote:
>>> I like the control stick and the sensitive controls, but others hate it for
>>> just that reason.
>> Are they making any of the factory built LSAs with dual stick?
>
> It's listed as a standard option in the current price sheet.


Well if you are as right handed as I am and you are ever going to be
flying and need to take notes get the dual sticks.

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-01-07, Gig601XLBuilder > wrote:
> Jay Maynard wrote:
>> On 2008-01-07, Gig601XLBuilder > wrote:
>>> Vaughn Simon wrote:
>>>> I like the control stick and the sensitive controls, but others hate it for
>>>> just that reason.
>>> Are they making any of the factory built LSAs with dual stick?
>> It's listed as a standard option in the current price sheet.
> Well if you are as right handed as I am and you are ever going to be
> flying and need to take notes get the dual sticks.

I wasn't clear: they're installing it on all aircraft, standard. I'd lways
planned to get it.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

[Gig601XLBuilder]

wrote:
> If I were in the market to buy a factory-built SLSA, I'd have to go
> for the RANS S-19LS
>
> http://www.rans.com/S19achievesSLSA.htm
>
> It's not IFR however, but I'm not too keen on taking anything smaller
> than something and less powerful than a C182, Mooney, Dakota or
> Bonanza into IMC.
>

There's imc and there is IMC. Plus there are those that just like to
file IFR even in perfectly clear weather for a X-C.

[Vaughn Simon]

"Gig601XLBuilder" > wrote in message
...
> Strange because the Spar is under your knees.

OK, then SOMETHING hits you right in the middle of the back.

> You think it sucks to close you ought to try building it.

I have no doubt! Even the simplest canopies are a bear to build. At least
the Zodiac canopy is hinged in the front. I am a "glider guy" & I can tell you
confidently that any other configuration is an accident waiting to happen.

> Are they making any of the factory built LSAs with dual stick?

Without dual controls, how would you use it as a trainer? ...or even safely
check out a rental pilot?

Vaughn

[Gig601XLBuilder]

Vaughn Simon wrote:
> "Gig601XLBuilder" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Strange because the Spar is under your knees.
>
> OK, then SOMETHING hits you right in the middle of the back.

It's where the factory seat halves meet.

>
>> You think it sucks to close you ought to try building it.
>
> I have no doubt! Even the simplest canopies are a bear to build. At least
> the Zodiac canopy is hinged in the front. I am a "glider guy" & I can tell you
> confidently that any other configuration is an accident waiting to happen.
>
>> Are they making any of the factory built LSAs with dual stick?
>
> Without dual controls, how would you use it as a trainer? ...or even safely
> check out a rental pilot?
>
> Vaughn
>
>

The Y stick is in the middle is fine for two operators. In fact one nice
for training because there is no doubt who's hands are on the controls.
I've flown from both seats and just flying is fine. It's just that I am
the most right handed person you will ever meet as far as writing is
concerned and I tend to write a bunch of stuff down when flying.

[Vaughn Simon]

"Gig601XLBuilder" > wrote in message
...
> The Y stick is in the middle is fine for two operators. In fact one nice for
> training because there is no doubt who's hands are on the controls. I've flown
> from both seats and just flying is fine. It's just that I am the most right
> handed person you will ever meet as far as writing is concerned and I tend to
> write a bunch of stuff down when flying.

Yep, when my head is full of PIC stuff, I can barely remember a squawk code
long enough to write it down. I can't fly without my kneeboard and pencil.

That brings up another very small issue I had with the Zodiac...and the fix
for it. As soon as the wheels left the ground for the first time, I realized
that my (very normal) kneeboard limited stick movement to the right. There is a
very simple fix for that, simply drape the kneeboard across the center console,
it provided a very stable surface for writing.

Vaughn

[Dave[_5_]]

> * *Yep, when my head is full of PIC stuff, I can barely remember a squawk code
> long enough to write it down. *I can't fly without my kneeboard and pencil.>

I recently came across a pilot aid device that strikes me as a really
good idea. It's called the ATIS Wheel, and it provides a very
convenient means of recording pertinent information for takeoff or
landing without doing any writing. I plan to buy one soon.

http://www.atiswheel.com/

David Johnson

[Gig601XLBuilder]

Vaughn Simon wrote:
> "Gig601XLBuilder" > wrote in message
> ...
>> The Y stick is in the middle is fine for two operators. In fact one nice for
>> training because there is no doubt who's hands are on the controls. I've flown
>> from both seats and just flying is fine. It's just that I am the most right
>> handed person you will ever meet as far as writing is concerned and I tend to
>> write a bunch of stuff down when flying.
>
> Yep, when my head is full of PIC stuff, I can barely remember a squawk code
> long enough to write it down. I can't fly without my kneeboard and pencil.
>
> That brings up another very small issue I had with the Zodiac...and the fix
> for it. As soon as the wheels left the ground for the first time, I realized
> that my (very normal) kneeboard limited stick movement to the right. There is a
> very simple fix for that, simply drape the kneeboard across the center console,
> it provided a very stable surface for writing.
>
> Vaughn
>
>


Since I'm installing a Dynon 180 I'm going to have lots of extra panel
space. The only thing that is going to be on the panel extension between
the panel and the center console is the fuel tank selector. My current
plan is to put a clip like the one that is on a knee board in that space
so I'll have a nice little desk there.

[Jay Maynard]

I'm in Santa Rosa to get a few hours in the Zodiac XL at Dragonfly
Aviation. I got 1.4 hours of flight time today, familiarization and four
really lousy landings. Some comments:

On 2008-01-05, Vaughn Simon > wrote:
> In general, the thing seems fragile and "fussy" to me.

Considering the way I mistreated the one I was in today, fragile is about
the last word I'd use to describe it. The gear feels damn near
indestructible, as long as you land on the mains.

> I like the control stick and the sensitive controls, but others hate it
> for just that reason.

I don't know yet what I think about this. It's very sensitive, especially in
pitch; I was never able to establish an airspeed and get it to stay put.

> No, and because of the shape and tilt of the tanks it is hard to tell how
> much is in them.

We had that discussion. The guy said that you can tell how much is in them
by seeing how much fuel you can see just below the cap with the wings level;
if you can see blue at the corners, it's got about 9 gallons in it.

> The gauges on the Zodiac seem to be excellent, particularly compared to
> the POS in Cessnas.

This one has a Dynon EMS in it, and the gauges were a dream compared to the
usual untrustworthy Cessna crap.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 22:38:54 GMT, Jay Maynard
> wrote:

>I'm in Santa Rosa to get a few hours in the Zodiac XL at Dragonfly
>Aviation. I got 1.4 hours of flight time today, familiarization and four
>really lousy landings. Some comments:
>
>On 2008-01-05, Vaughn Simon > wrote:
>> In general, the thing seems fragile and "fussy" to me.
>
>Considering the way I mistreated the one I was in today, fragile is about
>the last word I'd use to describe it. The gear feels damn near
>indestructible, as long as you land on the mains.
>
>> I like the control stick and the sensitive controls, but others hate it
>> for just that reason.
>
>I don't know yet what I think about this. It's very sensitive, especially in
>pitch; I was never able to establish an airspeed and get it to stay put.
>
>> No, and because of the shape and tilt of the tanks it is hard to tell how
>> much is in them.
>
>We had that discussion. The guy said that you can tell how much is in them
>by seeing how much fuel you can see just below the cap with the wings level;
>if you can see blue at the corners, it's got about 9 gallons in it.
>
>> The gauges on the Zodiac seem to be excellent, particularly compared to
>> the POS in Cessnas.
>
>This one has a Dynon EMS in it, and the gauges were a dream compared to the
>usual untrustworthy Cessna crap.

jay
rest your arm across your leg while flying to steady your hand.
stealth Pilot

[[email protected]]

On Feb 25, 3:38*pm, Jay Maynard >
wrote:
> I'm in Santa Rosa to get a few hours in the Zodiac XL at Dragonfly
> Aviation. I got 1.4 hours of flight time today, familiarization and four
> really lousy landings. Some comments:
>
> On 2008-01-05, Vaughn Simon > wrote:
>
> > In general, the thing seems fragile and "fussy" to me.
>
> Considering the way I mistreated the one I was in today, fragile is about
> the last word I'd use to describe it. The gear feels damn near
> indestructible, as long as you land on the mains.
>
> > I like the control stick and the sensitive controls, but others hate it
> > for just that reason.
>
> I don't know yet what I think about this. It's very sensitive, especially in
> pitch; I was never able to establish an airspeed and get it to stay put.
>
> > * *No, and because of the shape and tilt of the tanks it is hard to tell how
> > much is in them.
>
> We had that discussion. The guy said that you can tell how much is in them
> by seeing how much fuel you can see just below the cap with the wings level;
> if you can see blue at the corners, it's got about 9 gallons in it.
>
> > The gauges on the Zodiac seem to be excellent, particularly compared to
> > the POS in Cessnas.
>
> This one has a Dynon EMS in it, and the gauges were a dream compared to the
> usual untrustworthy Cessna crap.
> --
> Jay Maynard, K5ZC * * * * * * * * *http://www.conmicro.comhttp://jmaynard.livejournal.com* * *http://www.tronguy.nethttp://www..hercules-390.org* * * * * * * (Yes, that's me!)
> Buy Hercules stuff athttp://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

The whole Zenith Line designed by Chris Hienz is sensitive in the
pitch axis, and for that matter in all directions. I will agree the
landing gear is just about bulletproof too. In another few hours you
will get used to the quick reaction the controls give, mainly because
of most of us grew up flying trucks like cessna's, pipers and the
like. Even my Zenith 801, which is the Mack truck of the Zenith line
has a pretty twitchy control feel to it..... I love my toy. !!!

Ben
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-02-26, > wrote:
> The whole Zenith Line designed by Chris Hienz is sensitive in the
> pitch axis, and for that matter in all directions. I will agree the
> landing gear is just about bulletproof too. In another few hours you
> will get used to the quick reaction the controls give, mainly because
> of most of us grew up flying trucks like cessna's, pipers and the
> like.

I sure hope so. I was pretty discouraged when I left the FBO yesterday. Yes,
all of my time to this point is in 172s and PA-28s and Tigers, and the
Zodiac feels quite a bit different.

I'm going to try the instructor's suggestion today and fly it with two
fingers, and the other suggestion in this thread and rest my hand on my leg.
Between the two, that should help with the tendency to overcontrol. I'm also
going to spend a bit of time at altitude figuring out power settings and
pitch attitudes to maintain airspeeds, so I can set up a 60 knot approach
and have it well stabilized before I get to the runway.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Jay Maynard wrote:

> I'm going to try the instructor's suggestion today and fly it with two
> fingers, and the other suggestion in this thread and rest my hand on my leg.
> Between the two, that should help with the tendency to overcontrol. I'm also
> going to spend a bit of time at altitude figuring out power settings and
> pitch attitudes to maintain airspeeds, so I can set up a 60 knot approach
> and have it well stabilized before I get to the runway.

It will help a lot. I got my helo rating in an R22 and it was a pretty
much required method in that twitchy SOB. The first time I flew in the
601 I heavy handed it until the the person I was flying with asked,
"Didn't you say you flew helicopters? Handle the stick like that."

As mentioned the 172s and such we have have all flown so much are trucks
compared to the 601s. And while the 601 isn't a Porsche it is closer to
a MGB and needs to be handled that way.

BTW... A fool report on Dragonfly's operation would be appreciated. I'm
planning to go somewhere to get about 20 hours before my 601s first
flight and they are on my short list.

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-02-26, Gig 601XL Builder > wrote:
> BTW... A fool report on Dragonfly's operation would be appreciated. I'm
> planning to go somewhere to get about 20 hours before my 601s first
> flight and they are on my short list.

They're a good bunch of folks to deal with. The owner and chief instructor
is the guy I've been dealing with. He's been very patient with my attempts
to tear up his airplane, while having some good suggestions to make that
have helped quite a bit. He's also friends with Michael Heintz, of Quality
Sport Planes and son of Chris Heintz. Michael apparently inherited the
Zodiac prototype when Chris moved back to Europe.

Dragonfly's Zodiac, N601BA, is an experimental, with an O-235 with the
Sparrowhawk 125 HP conversion. (They're also a Cessna Pilot Center, and the
engine was one they had in their rotation there.) It's also got a 3-blade
Warp Drive prop. I don't know how much difference that will make in how the
aircraft flies from whatever it is you're hanging on yours, beyond raw
speed. (We were able to get 118 knots indicated level at full power at 3500
feet.) You might factor that into your thinking. Aside from that, it looks
like a pretty stock aircraft, with a full Dynon 100/120 panel and IFR GPS.
No wheel pants, which is probably a good thing considering the abuse it gets
from ham-handed students.

STS is a nice airport, with not a lot of traffic and a very accommodating
tower. It's pretty much all GA, though Horizon does fly in there. Aside from
that, you'll fly into SFO or Oakland and drive an hour; the drive up US 101
is gorgeous.

They've got several other aircraft, mainly 172s of various stripes. Even so,
they didn't seem too busy while I was there, although that may be due to
weather over the past week as much as anything.

I'm happy I came here, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-02-26, Gig 601XL Builder > wrote:
> It will help a lot. I got my helo rating in an R22 and it was a pretty
> much required method in that twitchy SOB. The first time I flew in the
> 601 I heavy handed it until the the person I was flying with asked,
> "Didn't you say you flew helicopters? Handle the stick like that."

Well, I got 1.6 in N601BA today, and it went a hell of a lot better. I was
in much better command of the aircraft, and was able to do everything
passably well. 4 landings, one of which even failed to suck. I know I need
more practice time, and more dual wouldn't hurt either.

The big difference? I kept my left hand firmly planted on my thigh and used
just the thumb and forefinger on the stick. It was like night and day: I was
flying the aircraft, instead of it flying me.

I did screw up one approach by not staying on top of it, and wound up at 45
knots, nose high, way too high above the ground...and got a compliment from
the CFI when I said "Going around", and did it. He had several nice things
to say about decision making.

I'm now in position to make a decision on what to buy...but that's another
post.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390