Is Bush doomed?

[John Galt]

Is Bush Doomed?
by Paul Craig Roberts

Fear must be coursing through President Bush's veins as he realizes
the Iraqi trap in which the neocons have placed him. Bush is caught
between an Iraqi civil war and a wider insurgency.

Desperate to extricate himself from the weekly carnage well before the
November election, Bush can neither deliver on his promise of
democracy via direct elections nor impose his plan for an Iraqi
assembly elected indirectly by caucuses.

If Bush delivers on his democracy promise, the Shi'ites with 60% of
the population will be elected, and the country will break out in
civil war. If he tries to water down Shi'ite representation with his
plan for an assembly elected indirectly by caucuses, the so far
peaceful Shi'ites are likely to join the violence.

If the Shi'ites become violent, the insurgency would be too large to
be contained by our present occupying force. Moreover, the outbreak of
a general rebellion in Iraq would spill over throughout the Middle
East where unpopular secular rulers are sitting on a smoldering Islam.
Our puppet in Pakistan would likely bite the dust. Israel would then
face countervailing Muslim nukes.

If you think more US troops are needed now in Iraq, imagine how many
more would be required to deal with a wider conflagration. Where would
they come from? The US military is already so thinly stretched that
soon 40% of the occupying troops will be drawn from the National Guard
and reservists, resulting in tremendous disruption in the affairs of
tens of thousands of families.

Pilots and troops are shunning the cash bonuses offered for
reenlistments. The troops recognize a quagmire even if their neocon
overlords cannot. The only source of troops is the draft.

A Shi'ite insurgency that brought back the draft would deprive Bush of
reelection. A civil war with the prospect of a Kurdish state would
bring in the Turks. On January 14 Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan said
that Turkey will intervene in the event of Iraq's disintegration.

The Shi'ites and the Turks are forming an alliance as both have the
same interest in maintaining the geographical integrity of the Iraqi
state. The US could come dangerously close to military conflict with a
NATO ally.

All of this was perfectly clear well in advance of the ill-considered
invasion. If Bush wasn't smart enough to see it, why didn't his
National Security Advisor or his Secretary of State? How did a handful
of neocon ideologues hijack US foreign policy?

Bush did not campaign on a neocon policy of conquest in the Middle
East. There was no public debate over this policy. The invasion of
Iraq was the private agenda of the neocons.

Why have the neocons not been held responsible for their treason in
abusing their presidential appointments to substitute their personal
agenda for America's agenda?

Bush has been the neocon's puppet for so long that he is now stuck
with responsibility for their horrible mistake. With no way of his own
to get out of his trap, his arrogance toward the "irrelevant" UN and
our doubting allies has disappeared. Come bail me out, he pleads.

Bush, desperate to be extricated before doom strikes him is
experiencing a reality totally different from the chest-thumping of
neocon megalomaniacs, such as Charles Krauthammer, who declared the US
so powerful as to be able to "reshape, indeed remake, reality on its
own."

Bush now knows that he lacks the power to deal with the reality of
Iraq. Indeed, Bush cannot even deal with his own appointees.

January 17, 2004

Dr. Roberts [send him mail] is John M. Olin Fellow at the Institute
for Political Economy, Senior Research Fellow at the Hoover
Institution, Stanford University, and Research Fellow at the
Independent Institute. He is a former associate editor of the Wall
Street Journal and a former assistant secretary of the U.S. Treasury.
He is the co-author of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.

Copyright © 2004 Creators Syndicate

Paul Craig Roberts Archives





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[Gene Storey]

"John Galt" > wrote
>
> Is Bush Doomed?

No one votes anymore. He's got just as much chance as any other
loser in politics.

[Jarg]

"John Galt" > wrote in message
om...
> Is Bush Doomed?

He's doing very well in the polls for someone who is doomed! This is
wishful thinking by the do-nothing left.

Jarg

[betweentheeyes]

"John Galt" > wrote in message
om...
> Is Bush<snip>

Why did you cross post this to a firearm discussion group?

[tim gueguen]

"betweentheeyes" > wrote in message
news:oMlOb.75767$sv6.174031@attbi_s52...
> "John Galt" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Is Bush<snip>
>
> Why did you cross post this to a firearm discussion group?
>
What better way to ensure a massive flamewar?

tim gueguen 101867

[Jos.Carman]

"Gene Storey" > wrote in message news:<gPjOb.495$ce2.323@okepread03>...
> "John Galt" > wrote
> >
> > Is Bush Doomed?

Carman wrote:
Only in the sense that you, I, and everyone else is doomed.
His political future is looking pretty good. You should get
ready for four more years of lower taxes and robust economy.

> No one votes anymore.

Carman wrote:
You mean you can't be bothered. The world is run by those
who show up. If you'd rather stay at home and watch events
as interpreted for you by Disney and CNN that's fine. Just
don't be too surprised when it fails to make sense.

> He's got just as much chance as any other loser in politics.

Carman wrote:
GWB a loser? Are you serious? I guess you do watch a lot of
television.

[Tank Fixer]

In article <oMlOb.75767$sv6.174031@attbi_s52>,on Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:59:48
GMT,
betweentheeyes attempted to say.....
> "John Galt" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Is Bush<snip>
>
> Why did you cross post this to a firearm discussion group?

Because he's a paranoid, black helicopter kind of guy...


--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

[David Casey]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:59:48 GMT, in
<news:oMlOb.75767$sv6.174031@attbi_s52>, betweentheeyes wrote:

[followups set to us.military.army]

>> Is Bush<snip>
>
> Why did you cross post this to a firearm discussion group?

To get people like you posting asking why he was posting this to a firearm
discussion group so people like me would post telling you why he was posting
this to a firearm discussion group? ;-)

Dave
--
You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
US Army Signal Corps!!

http://www.geocities.com/davidcasey98
Added Patriot live fire pics from June 2002,
Bosque fire pics from June 2003, CQB training
pics from October 2003, FTX pics from October 2000,
NBC training pics from September 2000, and
Dining Out pics from October 2000!

[David Casey]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 07:45:34 GMT, in
>, David Casey wrote:

> [followups set to us.military.army]

Oops, maybe not. This time for sure. :-)

Dave
--
You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
US Army Signal Corps!!

http://www.geocities.com/davidcasey98
Added Patriot live fire pics from June 2002,
Bosque fire pics from June 2003, CQB training
pics from October 2003, FTX pics from October 2000,
NBC training pics from September 2000, and
Dining Out pics from October 2000!

[Gorf]

So did his father at this time of the election . I think Bush SR had 70%
approval and still lost. To be fair I have to mention that Bush SR had Perot
to deal with. More than likely Bush SR would have won reelection in 92 if
Perot had not run. If the economy gets better Bush will probably win unless
Iraq turns into a disastaer soon.



"Jarg" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "John Galt" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Is Bush Doomed?
>
> He's doing very well in the polls for someone who is doomed! This is
> wishful thinking by the do-nothing left.
>
> Jarg
>
>

[Gene Storey]

"Jos.Carman" > wrote
>
> GWB a loser? Are you serious? I guess you do watch a lot of
> television.

Loser = Credit Card Fanatic (GWB has no regard for either the
deficit, the debt, or the balance of trade. His policies are to charge it).

According to a former cabinet member, he is "like a blind man in room
full of deaf people."

That's another definition of a loser.

[Zippy the Pinhead]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:04:30 GMT, "Gorf" > wrote:

>So did his father at this time of the election . I think Bush SR had 70%
>approval and still lost. To be fair I have to mention that Bush SR had Perot
>to deal with.

Not only that, but back then this country still had its head so far up
its ass that it thought the job in the Middle East was done, and
clinton was promising his retinue of whimpering victim groups a share
of the "peace dividend".

[Morton Davis]

"Zippy the Pinhead" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:04:30 GMT, "Gorf" > wrote:
>
> >So did his father at this time of the election . I think Bush SR had 70%
> >approval and still lost. To be fair I have to mention that Bush SR had
Perot
> >to deal with.
>
> Not only that, but back then this country still had its head so far up
> its ass that it thought the job in the Middle East was done, and
> clinton was promising his retinue of whimpering victim groups a share
> of the "peace dividend".

Perot carried my county. Clinto "won" because of Perot.

-*MORT*-

[Kent Finnell]

"Gene Storey" > wrote in message
news:mkuOb.544$ce2.195@okepread03...
> "Jos.Carman" > wrote
> >
> > GWB a loser? Are you serious? I guess you do watch a lot of
> > television.
>
> Loser = Credit Card Fanatic (GWB has no regard for either the
> deficit, the debt, or the balance of trade. His policies are to charge
it).

Wars cost money? Want to cut and run because the deficit rises? It is
still small when compared to the GNP.

>
> According to a former cabinet member, he is "like a blind man in room
> full of deaf people."

Quoting a man with a mouthful of sour grapes is likely to get one
splattered with purple juice.

> That's another definition of a loser.
>
Go ahead and don't vote. I'll be more than happy to make decisions for you!


--
Kent Finnell
From the Music City USA

[Gene Storey]

"Kent Finnell" > wrote
> "Gene Storey" > wrote
> > "Jos.Carman" > wrote
> > >
> > > GWB a loser? Are you serious? I guess you do watch a lot of
> > > television.
> >
> > Loser = Credit Card Fanatic (GWB has no regard for either the
> > deficit, the debt, or the balance of trade. His policies are to charge
> it).
>
> Wars cost money? Want to cut and run because the deficit rises? It is
> still small when compared to the GNP.

The GNP is computed using the same auditors as Enron used.

Wars cost money, but that's not where the revenue is going. We have
so many nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, and reserve officers on
active duty, that a pit has become ops-normal.

If we would move the retirement age to 89, we would cut the deficit
to zero in just a few years. War or no war.

It's bad policy to pay people not to work.

[Kent Finnell]

"Gene Storey" > wrote in message
news:HoAOb.570$ce2.342@okepread03...
> "Kent Finnell" > wrote
> > "Gene Storey" > wrote
> > > "Jos.Carman" > wrote
> > > >
> > > > GWB a loser? Are you serious? I guess you do watch a lot of
> > > > television.
> > >
> > > Loser = Credit Card Fanatic (GWB has no regard for either the
> > > deficit, the debt, or the balance of trade. His policies are to
charge
> > it).
> >
> > Wars cost money? Want to cut and run because the deficit rises? It is
> > still small when compared to the GNP.
>
> The GNP is computed using the same auditors as Enron used.

Bull****. Looks good on a bumper sticker, but is not the truth. Arthur
Andersen is no longer a player and never computed the GNP.

>
> Wars cost money, but that's not where the revenue is going. We have
> so many nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, and reserve officers on
> active duty, that a pit has become ops-normal.

I don't believe that we're building nukes anymore, Gene. Exactly what kind
of chemical weapons do you think we're making? Are you willing to use
them? When? Where?

> If we would move the retirement age to 89, we would cut the deficit
> to zero in just a few years. War or no war.
>
> It's bad policy to pay people not to work.
>
Well, let me guess. You're most probably under 50 and have a job.

People on Social Security are not being paid to NOT work. They are being
paid for having worked in the past. Many are unable to work any longer and
others, because of their age, cannot find work.

Gene, you're a cynical fool.


--
From the Music City, USA ... Kent Finnell

"A gun is like a rattlesnake. You can try to keep it in a cage,
but sooner or later it's going to get out and hurt someone."

Julie Wheeler, spokeswoman for the anti-gun group
Ceasefire Oregon, somehow equating a tool made of
metal and wood with a venomous reptile.

[Gene Storey]

"Kent Finnell" > wrote
>
> I don't believe that we're building nukes anymore, Gene.

It would be funny if you weren't serious. Why do you think
they call it the B-2 Nuclear Bomber, or the Minuteman
Nuclear missile? What do you think the Submarines are
carrying? Nukes. And each nuke costs the same as an
F-15E to keep on alert and maintain.

[Steve Krulick]

Morton Davis wrote:
>
> "Zippy the Pinhead" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:04:30 GMT, "Gorf" > wrote:
> >
> > >So did his father at this time of the election . I think Bush SR had 70%
> > >approval and still lost. To be fair I have to mention that Bush SR had
> Perot
> > >to deal with.
> >
> > Not only that, but back then this country still had its head so far up
> > its ass that it thought the job in the Middle East was done, and
> > clinton was promising his retinue of whimpering victim groups a share
> > of the "peace dividend".
>
> Perot carried my county. Clinto "won" because of Perot.

The numbers don't bear that out. Care to cite REAL figures that
show that, BrainDead?

CITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> -*MORT*-
BrainDead, and slave to urban legends.

--
Steven Krulick /
Ellenville NY 12428-130727

[Howard Berkowitz]

In article >, "Kent
Finnell" > wrote:

> "Gene Storey" > wrote in message
> news:HoAOb.570$ce2.342@okepread03...
> > "Kent Finnell" > wrote
> > > "Gene Storey" > wrote
> > > > "Jos.Carman" > wrote
> > > > >
> > > > > GWB a loser? Are you serious? I guess you do watch a lot of
> > > > > television.
> > > >
> > > > Loser = Credit Card Fanatic (GWB has no regard for either the
> > > > deficit, the debt, or the balance of trade. His policies are to
> charge
> > > it).
> > >
> > > Wars cost money? Want to cut and run because the deficit rises? It
> > > is
> > > still small when compared to the GNP.
> >
> > The GNP is computed using the same auditors as Enron used.
>
> Bull****. Looks good on a bumper sticker, but is not the truth. Arthur
> Andersen is no longer a player and never computed the GNP.

US Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics. Some years ago
(scary -- that's about 30), I supported the computers it ran on.
>
> >
> > Wars cost money, but that's not where the revenue is going. We have
> > so many nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, and reserve officers on
> > active duty, that a pit has become ops-normal.
>
> I don't believe that we're building nukes anymore, Gene.

In fairness, they do need maintenance, and there are at least studies of
deep-penetrating warheads.

[Tank Fixer]

In article <mkuOb.544$ce2.195@okepread03>,
on Sun, 18 Jan 2004 05:44:16 -0600,
Gene Storey attempted to say .....

>
> According to a former cabinet member, he is "like a blind man in room
> full of deaf people."

You meant to say a FIRED cabinet member ?

> That's another definition of a loser.

Sour grapes of someone who got themselves fired ? Yes.

--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

[Jos.Carman]

"Gene Storey" > wrote in message news:<mkuOb.544$ce2.195@okepread03>...
> "Jos.Carman" > wrote
> >
> > GWB a loser? Are you serious? I guess you do watch a lot of
> > television.
>
> Loser = Credit Card Fanatic (GWB has no regard for either the
> deficit, the debt, or the balance of trade. His policies are
> to charge it).
>
> According to a former cabinet member, he is "like a blind man
> in room full of deaf people."
>
> That's another definition of a loser.

Carman wrote:
Definately too much television!

[Gene Storey]

"Kent Finnell" > wrote
>
> People on Social Security are not being paid to NOT work. They are being
> paid for having worked in the past.

Tell that to all the kids under 18 who are on Social Security.

Social Security is welfare by any other name. It's a safety net for people who
don't or won't plan for their own retirement. If you start collecting at age 65,
then by age 69 you will have consumed everything you paid in. After 69 is free
money from the socialists. Those who live to be 80 and 90 are ripping us all
off.

People who don't work should be sent to a barracks, housed 100 to a bay,
and get their meals on picnic benches in a tent.

[michael price]

"Kent Finnell" > wrote in message >...
> "Gene Storey" > wrote in message
> news:HoAOb.570$ce2.342@okepread03...
> > "Kent Finnell" > wrote
> > > "Gene Storey" > wrote
> > > > "Jos.Carman" > wrote
> > > > >
> > > > > GWB a loser? Are you serious? I guess you do watch a lot of
> > > > > television.
> > > >
> > > > Loser = Credit Card Fanatic (GWB has no regard for either the
> > > > deficit, the debt, or the balance of trade. His policies are to
> charge
> > > it).
> > >
> > > Wars cost money? Want to cut and run because the deficit rises? It is
> > > still small when compared to the GNP.
> >
> > The GNP is computed using the same auditors as Enron used.
>
> Bull****. Looks good on a bumper sticker, but is not the truth. Arthur
> Andersen is no longer a player and never computed the GNP.
>
> >
> > Wars cost money, but that's not where the revenue is going. We have
> > so many nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, and reserve officers on
> > active duty, that a pit has become ops-normal.
>
> I don't believe that we're building nukes anymore, Gene. Exactly what kind
> of chemical weapons do you think we're making? Are you willing to use
> them? When? Where?
>
> > If we would move the retirement age to 89, we would cut the deficit
> > to zero in just a few years. War or no war.
> >
> > It's bad policy to pay people not to work.
> >
> Well, let me guess. You're most probably under 50 and have a job.
>
> People on Social Security are not being paid to NOT work. They are being
> paid for having worked in the past.

No they are paid for not having murdered all the politicans and started
a revolution and for not voting candidates who support SS out of office.
That's all you need to do to get SS.

> Many are unable to work any longer and
> others, because of their age, cannot find work.
>
> Gene, you're a cynical fool.
>
>
> --
> From the Music City, USA ... Kent Finnell
>
> "A gun is like a rattlesnake. You can try to keep it in a cage,
> but sooner or later it's going to get out and hurt someone."
>
> Julie Wheeler, spokeswoman for the anti-gun group
> Ceasefire Oregon, somehow equating a tool made of
> metal and wood with a venomous reptile.

[michael price]

Zippy the Pinhead > wrote in message >...
> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:04:30 GMT, "Gorf" > wrote:
>
> >So did his father at this time of the election . I think Bush SR had 70%
> >approval and still lost. To be fair I have to mention that Bush SR had Perot
> >to deal with.
>
> Not only that, but back then this country still had its head so far up
> its ass that it thought the job in the Middle East was done, and
> clinton was promising his retinue of whimpering victim groups a share
> of the "peace dividend".

What job was that? The job of giving Halliburton free money? The job
of setting up puppet governments to oppose Iran?

[Gorf]

Just an educated guess.. just like the liberals who point out that Gore
would have probably won if Nader had not run. BTW I think they are
right....Bush SR disenfranchised a lot of conservatives with his "read my
lips no new taxes" pledge and turned around and voted for the Dems tax
package. What gets me is the Dems attacks on the so-called "conservative"
Bush clan. They are not as conservative as they would like you to believe.
Most aristocrats aren't.

"Steve Krulick" > wrote in message
...
> Morton Davis wrote:
> >
> > "Zippy the Pinhead" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:04:30 GMT, "Gorf" > wrote:
> > >
> > > >So did his father at this time of the election . I think Bush SR had
70%
> > > >approval and still lost. To be fair I have to mention that Bush SR
had
> > Perot
> > > >to deal with.
> > >
> > > Not only that, but back then this country still had its head so far up
> > > its ass that it thought the job in the Middle East was done, and
> > > clinton was promising his retinue of whimpering victim groups a share
> > > of the "peace dividend".
> >
> > Perot carried my county. Clinto "won" because of Perot.
>
> The numbers don't bear that out. Care to cite REAL figures that
> show that, BrainDead?
>
> CITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> > -*MORT*-
> BrainDead, and slave to urban legends.
>
> --
> Steven Krulick /
> Ellenville NY 12428-130727

[Kent Finnell]

"Gene Storey" > wrote in message
news:ITDOb.584$ce2.516@okepread03...
> "Kent Finnell" > wrote
> >
> > People on Social Security are not being paid to NOT work. They are
being
> > paid for having worked in the past.
>
> Tell that to all the kids under 18 who are on Social Security.

Kids under 18 are not collecting Social Security, they are collecting
survivors' benefits because their working mom and/or dad has died.
Generally the money goes to a legal guardian who must make an accounting of
all money spent on behalf of the minor(s). I'm familiar with the this
provision of the law because I have a friend who lost her husband. Their 2
daughters will receive checks until 18. They are currently 16 and 9. Since
the woman works, she won't collect on her husband's account when she
retires. He was a male psych nurse. You may have met him if you were ever
committed in Nashville. You have a problem with that, asshole?

>
> Social Security is welfare by any other name. It's a safety net for
people who
> don't or won't plan for their own retirement. If you start collecting at
age 65,
> then by age 69 you will have consumed everything you paid in. After 69 is
free
> money from the socialists. Those who live to be 80 and 90 are ripping us
all
> off.

You're mathmatically challenged as well as being a total jerk, Gene. Whether
or not one plans their retirement or not, at age 62 (partial benefits) or
65, one is eligible to receive benefits since the money was extracted from
both the employee and the employer by the government. One would be a fool
like you not to draw those benefits.

Want to do a little math here? Let us assume that the work life is 45
years, at an average of $30k per year. Total taxable wages $ 1,350,000 at
12.8% (both halves) equals $ 172,800. Drawing an estimated $ 1,500 per
month, the account wouldn't run out for 115 months or almost 10 years.
>
> People who don't work should be sent to a barracks, housed 100 to a bay,
> and get their meals on picnic benches in a tent.
>
You're a compassionate *******, aren't you?

May I recommend decaf, a good mantra, and professional help to deal with
your irrational hatreds?


--
Kent Finnell, From Music City, USA

If a person who indulges in gluttony is a glutton,
and a person who commits a felony is a felon, then God is an iron.
-- Spider Robinson

[Jarg]

"michael price" > wrote in message
om...
> Zippy the Pinhead > wrote in message
>...
> > On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:04:30 GMT, "Gorf" > wrote:
> >
> > >So did his father at this time of the election . I think Bush SR had
70%
> > >approval and still lost. To be fair I have to mention that Bush SR had
Perot
> > >to deal with.
> >
> > Not only that, but back then this country still had its head so far up
> > its ass that it thought the job in the Middle East was done, and
> > clinton was promising his retinue of whimpering victim groups a share
> > of the "peace dividend".
>
> What job was that? The job of giving Halliburton free money? The job
> of setting up puppet governments to oppose Iran?

Do you really believe this nonsense? How did Bush have any say in the
choice of Halliburton? Answer - he didn't.

And if he is setting up puppet governments, well more power to him , though
frankly I don't think it is necessary. The US could take care of Iran
without help if it came to that.

Jarg

[[email protected]]

In us.military.army Gene Storey > wrote:

> It would be funny if you weren't serious. Why do you think
> they call it the B-2 Nuclear Bomber, or the Minuteman
> Nuclear missile? What do you think the Submarines are
> carrying? Nukes. And each nuke costs the same as an
> F-15E to keep on alert and maintain.

Goodness knows, I would have thought you death-hungry folks had enough nukes
already.


--
.................................................. ............................

"What sort of truth is it that needs protection?"

-Auberon Waugh, The London Daily Telegraph

.................................................. ............................
http://www.memeticcandiru.com

[[email protected]]

In us.military.army Gene Storey > wrote:

> People who don't work should be sent to a barracks, housed 100 to a bay,
> and get their meals on picnic benches in a tent.

I think that's an excellent idea. Americans who are no longer of use to
the miltiary-industrial complex should not detract from the war effort.

Perhaps they contribute to the manufacture of SoyLent Green, to help feed
the troops on the front lines.


--
.................................................. ............................

The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of
tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of
tyranny a good conscience.

- Albert Camus

.................................................. ............................
http://www.memeticcandiru.com

[Steve Krulick]

Gorf wrote:
>
> Just an educated guess..

No, just bad logic and no evidence. The numbers I remember
seeing showed that under any measure, Clinton would have won,
certainly the Electoral vote. But then, it's not up to ME to
disprove HIS claim.

> just like the liberals who point out that Gore
> would have probably won if Nader had not run.

Except that *I* have been posting evidence for years that THAT
is simply wishful thinking and sour grapes and scapegoating, and
that the exit polls and other numbers show that without Nader in
the race, BUSH would have won by a full percentage point! I'll
be happy to post this if desired. Let the Dems explain away the
10-20% (depending on state) of DEMS who voted FOR BUSH! THAT
more than swamps any impact Nader supporters had; indeed
millions of Nader supporters switched to Gore at the last
minute, INSURING that Gore DID win Florida AND the nation!
Thanks, ingrates!

> BTW I think they are
> right....Bush SR disenfranchised a lot of conservatives with his "read my
> lips no new taxes" pledge and turned around and voted for the Dems tax
> package. What gets me is the Dems attacks on the so-called "conservative"
> Bush clan. They are not as conservative as they would like you to believe.
> Most aristocrats aren't.

Not Bush senior; he was a go-along centrist hack!

And Bush junior is a brainless sock-puppet; but the gang behind
him are ultra-fascists criminals.

> "Steve Krulick" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Morton Davis wrote:
> > >
> > > "Zippy the Pinhead" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:04:30 GMT, "Gorf" > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >So did his father at this time of the election . I think Bush SR had
> 70%
> > > > >approval and still lost. To be fair I have to mention that Bush SR
> had
> > > Perot
> > > > >to deal with.
> > > >
> > > > Not only that, but back then this country still had its head so far up
> > > > its ass that it thought the job in the Middle East was done, and
> > > > clinton was promising his retinue of whimpering victim groups a share
> > > > of the "peace dividend".
> > >
> > > Perot carried my county. Clinto "won" because of Perot.
> >
> > The numbers don't bear that out. Care to cite REAL figures that
> > show that, BrainDead?
> >
> > CITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > > -*MORT*-
> > BrainDead, and slave to urban legends.
> >
> > --
> > Steven Krulick /
> > Ellenville NY 12428-130727

[Jarg]

> wrote in message
news:WUKOb.32444$Eq.6145@clgrps12...
> In us.military.army Gene Storey > wrote:
>

>
> Perhaps they contribute to the manufacture of SoyLent Green, to help feed
> the troops on the front lines.
>
Great idea! Their hippy tree huging vegetarian diet will make for
flavorful meat. Yummy! ;)

Jarg

[Gene Storey]

> wrote
> In us.military.army Gene Storey > wrote:
>
> > People who don't work should be sent to a barracks, housed 100 to a bay,
> > and get their meals on picnic benches in a tent.
>
> I think that's an excellent idea. Americans who are no longer of use to
> the miltiary-industrial complex should not detract from the war effort.
>
> Perhaps they contribute to the manufacture of SoyLent Green, to help feed
> the troops on the front lines.

Too Jewish...

[Kent Finnell]

"Gene Storey" > wrote in message
news:UuBOb.578$ce2.222@okepread03...
> "Kent Finnell" > wrote
> >
> > I don't believe that we're building nukes anymore, Gene.
>
> It would be funny if you weren't serious. Why do you think
> they call it the B-2 Nuclear Bomber, or the Minuteman
> Nuclear missile? What do you think the Submarines are
> carrying? Nukes. And each nuke costs the same as an
> F-15E to keep on alert and maintain.
>
Gene, you slut, those things were built to carry nukes and are still capable
of carrying them. We are no longer making nukes, we have more than enough
stockpiled from the Cold War.

But do continue to rave. It is so much fun to watch someone like you melt
down.


--
Kent Finnell -- From the Music City USA

Never kick a cow chip on a hot day.
-- Will Rogers

[Kent Finnell]

"Howard Berkowitz" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Kent
> Finnell" > wrote:
>
> > "Gene Storey" > wrote in message
> > news:HoAOb.570$ce2.342@okepread03...
> > > "Kent Finnell" > wrote
> > > > "Gene Storey" > wrote
> > > > > "Jos.Carman" > wrote
> > > > > >
> > > > > > GWB a loser? Are you serious? I guess you do watch a lot of
> > > > > > television.
> > > > >
> > > > > Loser = Credit Card Fanatic (GWB has no regard for either the
> > > > > deficit, the debt, or the balance of trade. His policies are to
> > charge
> > > > it).
> > > >
> > > > Wars cost money? Want to cut and run because the deficit rises? It
> > > > is
> > > > still small when compared to the GNP.
> > >
> > > The GNP is computed using the same auditors as Enron used.
> >
> > Bull****. Looks good on a bumper sticker, but is not the truth. Arthur
> > Andersen is no longer a player and never computed the GNP.
>
> US Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics. Some years ago
> (scary -- that's about 30), I supported the computers it ran on.

But you didn't work for Arthur Andersen, right? Pitiful Gene just keeps
throwing out bumper sticker wisdom, not facts.

> >
> > >
> > > Wars cost money, but that's not where the revenue is going. We have
> > > so many nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, and reserve officers on
> > > active duty, that a pit has become ops-normal.
> >
> > I don't believe that we're building nukes anymore, Gene.
>
> In fairness, they do need maintenance, and there are at least studies of
> deep-penetrating warheads.

No denial of maintenance costs and many have been dismantled. The
deep-penetrating warheads are congenital, used for the MOAB program.

Maybe Gene needs to borrow the spare leg I have leaning against the wall in
the closet. Then he'd have a leg to stand on.


--
From the Music City, USA ... Kent Finnell

"A gun is like a rattlesnake. You can try to keep it in a cage,
but sooner or later it's going to get out and hurt someone."

Julie Wheeler, spokeswoman for the anti-gun group
Ceasefire Oregon, somehow equating a tool made of
metal and wood with a venomous reptile.

[Gene Storey]

"Kent Finnell" > wrote
>
> Gene, you slut, those things were built to carry nukes and are still capable
> of carrying them. We are no longer making nukes, we have more than enough
> stockpiled from the Cold War.

Q: Why does New Mexico get the highest return on the tax dollar?
A: Los Alamos

You think they're making Ice Cream there?

Get back when you have a clue fluffy.

[Gene Storey]

"Kent Finnell" > wrote
>
> No denial of maintenance costs and many have been dismantled.

You get that from your cousins wife? Many? Anything from two to infinity
is covered by the mathematical concept of "many." Are you an auditor?

> Maybe Gene needs to borrow the spare leg I have leaning against the wall in
> the closet. Then he'd have a leg to stand on.

I don't need your wife's strap-on, but it does explain why you are completely anal.

[Kent Finnell]

"Gene Storey" > wrote in message
news:pcQOb.748$ce2.448@okepread03...
> "Kent Finnell" > wrote
> >
> > No denial of maintenance costs and many have been dismantled.
>
> You get that from your cousins wife?

No, from the mainstream media.

> Many? Anything from two to infinity
> is covered by the mathematical concept of "many."

Certainly more than two, moron. There have been treaty requirements, don't
you know ... opps, sorry, you probably don't know since you have your head
where the sun don't shine.

> Are you an auditor?

Not currently, but I have been.

>
> > Maybe Gene needs to borrow the spare leg I have leaning against the wall
in
> > the closet. Then he'd have a leg to stand on.
>
> I don't need your wife's strap-on, but it does explain why you are
completely anal.
>
No wife, no strap-on. It is a prosthetic lower leg and foot (complete with
5 toes). My right foot was amputated in 1956. The one in the closet is
about 20 years old and I can no longer wear it, but I keep it in case I need
to salvage the foot which is bolted to the socket portion. You still need
to find a leg to stand on, but since you're such a nasty little git, I
withdraw my generous offer.


--
Kent Finnell, From Music City, USA

If a person who indulges in gluttony is a glutton,
and a person who commits a felony is a felon, then God is an iron.
-- Spider Robinson

[Morton Davis]

"Jarg" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "michael price" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Zippy the Pinhead > wrote in message
> >...
> > > On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:04:30 GMT, "Gorf" > wrote:
> > >
> > > >So did his father at this time of the election . I think Bush SR had
> 70%
> > > >approval and still lost. To be fair I have to mention that Bush SR
had
> Perot
> > > >to deal with.
> > >
> > > Not only that, but back then this country still had its head so far up
> > > its ass that it thought the job in the Middle East was done, and
> > > clinton was promising his retinue of whimpering victim groups a share
> > > of the "peace dividend".
> >
> > What job was that? The job of giving Halliburton free money? The job
> > of setting up puppet governments to oppose Iran?
>
> Do you really believe this nonsense? How did Bush have any say in the
> choice of Halliburton? Answer - he didn't.
>
> And if he is setting up puppet governments, well more power to him ,
though
> frankly I don't think it is necessary. The US could take care of Iran
> without help if it came to that.
>
He needs to look at the middle east in the 1920s and 1930s if he wants to
see real puppet governments Great Britain "created" many of the countries in
the area, installing "kings" hand selected by Great Britain.

-*MORT*-

[Gene Storey]

"Kent Finnell" > wrote
>
> My right foot was amputated in 1956.

Sounds like a personal problem. Is that violins I hear?

[Kent Finnell]

"Gene Storey" > wrote in message
news:epTOb.1748$ce2.1438@okepread03...
> "Kent Finnell" > wrote
> >
> > My right foot was amputated in 1956.
>
> Sounds like a personal problem. Is that violins I hear?
>
I hope not. I have better equipment now that Mother Nature supplied.
Thanks to a skilled surgeon, one can hardly tell except those times when
I've outgrown and/or worn out a leg. However, since they are so expensive
($4k), you can send a monthly contribution. The address is in the book.

I'd much rather have a hollow leg than have a hollow head like you.


--
Kent Finnell
From the Music City USA

[JHBSban]

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
>
> "Kent Finnell" wrote
> >
> > My right foot was amputated in 1956.
>
> Sounds like a personal problem. Is that violins I hear?
>
Amputated in 1956..! That's quite some time ago. That spare may be older than he is.

Kent, No offense intended, but I never thought I would actually come across that "One legged man in an ass kicking contest." It
doesn't seem to be an impairment in this instance, You are "kickin' ass" just fine... ; - }
jhbs

[Kent Finnell]

"JHBSban" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Gene Storey" wrote in message
> >
> > "Kent Finnell" wrote
> > >
> > > My right foot was amputated in 1956.
> >
> > Sounds like a personal problem. Is that violins I hear?
> >
> Amputated in 1956..! That's quite some time ago. That spare may be older
than he is.
>
> Kent, No offense intended, but I never thought I would actually come
across that "One legged man in an ass kicking contest." It
> doesn't seem to be an impairment in this instance, You are "kickin' ass"
just fine... ; - }
> jhbs
>
No offense taken. I have a bunch of jokes, stories, puns, and come backs
about artificial legs. I've said that I'm uniquely equipped to kick my own
ass. Back when I was a teenager (circa 1957) I had a fellow sit beside me
in a dark theater and started to feel my leg. I told him to be careful of
splinters. He immediately withdrew to the other side of the theater.

One fellow challenged me to an ass kicking contest and I told him, "Fine. I
go first and I hope you know a good proctologist." Another retreat. What's
wrong with these people? No sense of humor?

You get the best lawyer jokes from lawyers, the best Polish jokes from
Poles, and the best handicapped jokes from the handicapped ... except from
those mentally handicapped like Gene.


--
From the Music City, USA ... Kent Finnell

"A gun is like a rattlesnake. You can try to keep it in a cage,
but sooner or later it's going to get out and hurt someone."

Julie Wheeler, spokeswoman for the anti-gun group
Ceasefire Oregon, somehow equating a tool made of
metal and wood with a venomous reptile.

[Morton Davis]

"Gene Storey" > wrote in message
news:epTOb.1748$ce2.1438@okepread03...
> "Kent Finnell" > wrote
> >
> > My right foot was amputated in 1956.
>
> Sounds like a personal problem. Is that violins I hear?
>
>
No, it's the meds wearing off. Soon the voices will start reminding you that
you're really a dung beatle.

-*MORT*-

[Jos.Carman]

"Kent Finnell" > wrote in message >...
> "Howard Berkowitz" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, "Kent
> > Finnell" > wrote:
> >
> > > "Gene Storey" > wrote in message
> > > news:HoAOb.570$ce2.342@okepread03...
> > > > "Kent Finnell" > wrote
> > > > > "Gene Storey" > wrote
> > > > > > "Jos.Carman" > wrote
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > GWB a loser? Are you serious? I guess
> > > > > > > you do watch a lot of television.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Loser = Credit Card Fanatic (GWB has no
> > > > > > regard for either the deficit, the debt,
> > > > > > or the balance of trade. His policies are
> > > > > > to charge it).
> > > > >
> > > > > Wars cost money? Want to cut and run because
> > > > > the deficit rises? It is still small when
> > > > > compared to the GNP.
> > > >
> > > > The GNP is computed using the same auditors
> > > > as Enron used.
> > >
> > > Bull****. Looks good on a bumper sticker, but is
> > > not the truth. Arthur Andersen is no longer a
> > > player and never computed the GNP.
> >
> > US Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics.
> > Some years ago(scary -- that's about 30), I supported
> > the computers it ran on.
>
> But you didn't work for Arthur Andersen, right? Pitiful
> Gene just keeps throwing out bumper sticker wisdom, not
> facts.
>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Wars cost money, but that's not where the
> > > > revenue is going. We have so many nuclear
> > > > weapons, chemical weapons, and reserve
> > > > officers on active duty, that a pit has become
> > > > ops-normal.
> > >
> > > I don't believe that we're building nukes anymore,
> > > Gene.
> >
> > In fairness, they do need maintenance, and there
> > are at least studies of deep-penetrating warheads.
>
> No denial of maintenance costs and many have been
> dismantled. The deep-penetrating warheads are
> congenital, (...)

Carman wrote:
OH MY GHOD! You mean we're BREEDING THEM?

sorry.
i couldn't help myself.
The gentleman meant "conventional" of course.

I did run into a lady once who thought a "Breeder Reactor"
was something alive though. no excuse, i know.






used for the MOAB program.
>
> Maybe Gene needs to borrow the spare leg I have leaning against the wall in
> the closet. Then he'd have a leg to stand on.
>
>
> --
> From the Music City, USA ... Kent Finnell
>
> "A gun is like a rattlesnake. You can try to keep it in a cage,
> but sooner or later it's going to get out and hurt someone."
>
> Julie Wheeler, spokeswoman for the anti-gun group
> Ceasefire Oregon, somehow equating a tool made of
> metal and wood with a venomous reptile.

[Kent Finnell]

"Jos.Carman" > wrote in message
om...
> "Kent Finnell" > wrote in message
>...
> > "Howard Berkowitz" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > In article >, "Kent
> > > Finnell" > wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Gene Storey" > wrote in message
> > > > news:HoAOb.570$ce2.342@okepread03...
> > > > > "Kent Finnell" > wrote
> > > > > > "Gene Storey" > wrote
> > > > > > > "Jos.Carman" > wrote
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > GWB a loser? Are you serious? I guess
> > > > > > > > you do watch a lot of television.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Loser = Credit Card Fanatic (GWB has no
> > > > > > > regard for either the deficit, the debt,
> > > > > > > or the balance of trade. His policies are
> > > > > > > to charge it).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wars cost money? Want to cut and run because
> > > > > > the deficit rises? It is still small when
> > > > > > compared to the GNP.
> > > > >
> > > > > The GNP is computed using the same auditors
> > > > > as Enron used.
> > > >
> > > > Bull****. Looks good on a bumper sticker, but is
> > > > not the truth. Arthur Andersen is no longer a
> > > > player and never computed the GNP.
> > >
> > > US Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics.
> > > Some years ago(scary -- that's about 30), I supported
> > > the computers it ran on.
> >
> > But you didn't work for Arthur Andersen, right? Pitiful
> > Gene just keeps throwing out bumper sticker wisdom, not
> > facts.
> >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wars cost money, but that's not where the
> > > > > revenue is going. We have so many nuclear
> > > > > weapons, chemical weapons, and reserve
> > > > > officers on active duty, that a pit has become
> > > > > ops-normal.
> > > >
> > > > I don't believe that we're building nukes anymore,
> > > > Gene.
> > >
> > > In fairness, they do need maintenance, and there
> > > are at least studies of deep-penetrating warheads.
> >
> > No denial of maintenance costs and many have been
> > dismantled. The deep-penetrating warheads are
> > congenital, (...)
>
> Carman wrote:
> OH MY GHOD! You mean we're BREEDING THEM?
>
> sorry.
> i couldn't help myself.
> The gentleman meant "conventional" of course.

Of course I did, but the spell checker sometimes has a mind of its own. You
should see what it tries to do with some people's names.

>
> I did run into a lady once who thought a "Breeder Reactor"
> was something alive though. no excuse, i know.

I used congenital properly once when describing the Clintons as congenital
liars. You wouldn't believe the flack I got from people who I thought were
more objective than they apparently were.
>
> used for the MOAB program.
> >
> > Maybe Gene needs to borrow the spare leg I have leaning against the wall
in
> > the closet. Then he'd have a leg to stand on.
> >
> >

I've retracted the offer. He would probably try to wear it on his head.


--
Kent Finnell
From the Music City USA

[michael price]

"Jarg" > wrote in message >...
> "michael price" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Zippy the Pinhead > wrote in message
> >...
> > > On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:04:30 GMT, "Gorf" > wrote:
> > >
> > > >So did his father at this time of the election . I think Bush SR had
> 70%
> > > >approval and still lost. To be fair I have to mention that Bush SR had
> Perot
> > > >to deal with.
> > >
> > > Not only that, but back then this country still had its head so far up
> > > its ass that it thought the job in the Middle East was done, and
> > > clinton was promising his retinue of whimpering victim groups a share
> > > of the "peace dividend".
> >
> > What job was that? The job of giving Halliburton free money? The job
> > of setting up puppet governments to oppose Iran?
>
> Do you really believe this nonsense? How did Bush have any say in the
> choice of Halliburton? Answer - he didn't.

And you know this how exactly? I mean he's in charge and the people
in charge selected Halliburton. So it seems probable that he had some
say in selecting them, particularly as he had the power to remove the
requirement for security clearances to truck petrol.
>
> And if he is setting up puppet governments, well more power to him,

Because the record of US puppets in that region is so good.

> though
> frankly I don't think it is necessary. The US could take care of Iran
> without help if it came to that.

If it came to what? What threat is Iran to the US?
>
> Jarg

[Morton Davis]

"michael price" > wrote in message
om...


> Because the record of US puppets in that region is so good.
>
Most of the countries in that region were created by Great Britain. They
installed their original governments. What governments in the middle east
are "American puppets"? Who installed them? Who controls them?

-*MORT*-

[Zippy the Pinhead]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:17:06 -0600, "Kent Finnell"
> wrote:

>I used congenital properly once when describing the Clintons as congenital
>liars.

Are you seriously suggesting that the Clintons were BORN with law
degrees?

[Kent Finnell]

"Zippy the Pinhead" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:17:06 -0600, "Kent Finnell"
> > wrote:
>
> >I used congenital properly once when describing the Clintons as
congenital
> >liars.
>
> Are you seriously suggesting that the Clintons were BORN with law
> degrees?

Not really, they kind of drifted that way since they were born with an
over-active lying gene.


--
Kent Finnell
From the Music City USA

[Tank Fixer]

In article >,
on Mon, 19 Jan 2004 23:29:43 -0600,
Zippy the Pinhead attempted to say .....

> On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:17:06 -0600, "Kent Finnell"
> > wrote:
>
> >I used congenital properly once when describing the Clintons as congenital
> >liars.
>
> Are you seriously suggesting that the Clintons were BORN with law
> degrees?
>

KEYBOARD !



--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

[Pat H.]

"Morton Davis" > wrote in message news:<SoxOb.93053$8H.135975@attbi_s03>...
> "Zippy the Pinhead" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:04:30 GMT, "Gorf" > wrote:
> >
> > >So did his father at this time of the election . I think Bush SR had 70%
> > >approval and still lost. To be fair I have to mention that Bush SR had
> Perot
> > >to deal with.
> >
> > Not only that, but back then this country still had its head so far up
> > its ass that it thought the job in the Middle East was done, and
> > clinton was promising his retinue of whimpering victim groups a share
> > of the "peace dividend".
>
> Perot carried my county. Clinto "won" because of Perot.
>
> -*MORT*-

Daddy Bush lost because he abandoned his base, among whom gun owners
numbered around 5 million votes that simply remained home.

That's what appears to be in progress right now, this time primarily
from the Bush Junta's decision to not only do nothing about the
Mexican and foreign invasion of America, but to actively encourage it.

The Bush Junta has invaded a courty doing nothing to America, and is
kissing up to a country that is invading America.

Pat Hines

[KenG]

You misunderstood, he said liars, not lawyers..... DAMN...... nevermind...

Zippy the Pinhead wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:17:06 -0600, "Kent Finnell"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>I used congenital properly once when describing the Clintons as congenital
>>liars.
>
>
> Are you seriously suggesting that the Clintons were BORN with law
> degrees?

[willdave davenant]

(John Galt) wrote in message >...

> Is Bush Doomed?

No. Next question.

wd

[Yardpilot]

"John Galt" > wrote in message
om...
> Is Bush Doomed?

No more than the average. Why do you ask?

[Yardpilot]

"Gene Storey" > wrote in message
news:UuBOb.578$ce2.222@okepread03...

> And each nuke costs the same as an
> F-15E to keep on alert and maintain.

Support that claim.

[Yardpilot]

"Gene Storey" > wrote in message
news:Y5QOb.747$ce2.602@okepread03...
> "Kent Finnell" > wrote
> >
> > Gene, you slut, those things were built to carry nukes and are still
capable
> > of carrying them. We are no longer making nukes, we have more than
enough
> > stockpiled from the Cold War.
>
> Q: Why does New Mexico get the highest return on the tax dollar?
> A: Los Alamos
>
> You think they're making Ice Cream there?
>
> Get back when you have a clue fluffy.

Here's YOUR clue. See if you understand what it says.

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/icbm-03a.html

[Morton Davis]

"willdave davenant" > wrote in message
om...
> (John Galt) wrote in message
>...
>
> > Is Bush Doomed?
>
> No. Next question.
>
>
I agree no questio he'll be re-elected.

-*MORT*-

[no one of consequence]

Yardpilot wrote:
]
] "John Galt" > wrote in message
] om...
]> Is Bush Doomed?
]
] No more than the average. Why do you ask?

A new Democrat candidate named I. Zim has arrived to rain DOOM upon Bush's
poor DOOOOOMED head?

"I will rule the White House with an iron fist... YOU! OBEY THE FIST!"

Hm. Or am I getting Zim mixed up with Dean?

--
|Patrick Chester |
|"...could you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?" |
|Wittier remarks always come to mind just after sending your article.|