Unusual attitude recovery advice sought

[Eamon McKinley]

Hello everyone,

I'm about a week away from taking my instrument checkride, but I'm
lacking in one area I thought would be a breeze. After spending months
practicing holds, approaches & arcs I was double-checking the PTS and
realised that we had not practised unusual attitudes. My CFII told me
they would be no problem and we would cover them before the checkride.
Well, a few days ago we attempted a couple and I totally blew it.
Basically I became so disoriented and uncomfortable during the setup,
I was unable to cope. In each case it was a negatives that got me.

Because I was still suffering the residual effects of the flu we
decided to wait and try them again. After easing me into the saddle
with a gentle setup I made a good recovery. Unfortunately he gave me
some more negative G's on the next one and I couldn't handle it- I
grunted and reached out for the controls before he said "recover".

On the ground we discussed the situation and my CFII told me that he
likes to be aggressive with the unusual attitudes in order that I can
handle the worst cases. He also said the CE he uses likes to do the
same. Rather than cancel the checkride, his recommendation was that
one of us briefs the DE that I have low negative G tolerance. I don't
know how I feel about this, it seems like a cop-out to be quite
honest.

Thoughts & advice would be very much appreciated.

[[email protected]]

On Mar 25, 3:07*pm, Eamon McKinley > wrote:
> Unfortunately he gave me
> some more negative G's on the next one and I couldn't handle it- I
> grunted and reached out for the controls before he said "recover".
>
> On the ground we discussed the situation and my CFII told me that he
> likes to be aggressive with the unusual attitudes in order that I can
> handle the worst cases. He also said the CE he uses likes to do the
> same. Rather than cancel the checkride, his recommendation was that
> one of us briefs the DE that I have low negative G tolerance. I don't
> know how I feel about this, it seems like a cop-out to be quite
> honest.

Interesting question. Being able to handle the worst is certainly a
good idea. On the other hand, nothing in the instrument PTS requires
enduring negative Gs; I don't think my instructors used anything more
aggressive than lazy 8s or chandelles to set up unusual attitudes.

If you're going to ask the DE to avoid negative Gs, I'd suggest doing
so well before the day of the practical test. That way, if the DE
isn't going to grant your request, you can find that out before you're
committed to pay for the checkride.

[Dan[_1_]]

On Mar 25, 1:24*pm, john smith > wrote:
> Eamon McKinley wrote:
> > Thoughts & advice would be very much appreciated.
>
> My thoughts are to take care of flying in the following order:
>
> 1. airspeed - increasing... pull back on the throttle; decreasing...
> push in on the throttle
>
> 2. pitch attitude - nose down... pull back on the yoke/stick; nose up...
> push forward on the yoke/stick
>
> 3. roll attitude - roll left/right to wings level

Doesn't #3 usually come before #2? Otherwise, a tightening spiral
might result.

--Dan

[[email protected]]

On Mar 25, 4:24*pm, john smith > wrote:
> My thoughts are to take care of flying in the following order:
>
> 1. airspeed - increasing... pull back on the throttle; decreasing...
> push in on the throttle
>
> 2. pitch attitude - nose down... pull back on the yoke/stick; nose up...
> push forward on the yoke/stick
>
> 3. roll attitude - roll left/right to wings level

There are a few different ways that advice could kill you.

What you do about pitching should depend more on airspeed than on
attitude. A stall can occur even if you're pitching down, so your
advice to pull the nose up if it's down can be just the opposite of
what you need to do. Instead, you should pitch down (and advance the
throttle) if your airspeed is too low (but first, check your rate-of-
turn or heading indicator to see if you're in a spin; if so, recover
according to the procedure in your plane's POH).

If your airspeed is too high, DON'T pitch up before checking your bank
angle. If you're in a high-speed spiral dive and you apply back
elevator, you could worsen the spiral and overstress the airplane.
Instead, roll level first (and put the throttle to idle), and see what
happens. If the plane pitches up sharply--which can happen because
you're now at high speed with abruptly less load factor--then you may
not need to apply back elevator at all, and indeed may even need some
forward pressure to prevent too steep an upward pitch.

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Eamon McKinley" > wrote in message
...
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm about a week away from taking my instrument checkride, but I'm
> lacking in one area I thought would be a breeze. After spending months
> practicing holds, approaches & arcs I was double-checking the PTS and
> realised that we had not practised unusual attitudes. My CFII told me
> they would be no problem and we would cover them before the checkride.
> Well, a few days ago we attempted a couple and I totally blew it.
> Basically I became so disoriented and uncomfortable during the setup,
> I was unable to cope. In each case it was a negatives that got me.
<...>


What kind of problems do you have in turbulance?

Getting bounced around in the soup is not like in VMC - your eyes and inner
ear are just not going to agree.

How much time in actual IMC do you have? I would give some thought to riding
along with another pilot to see if you can hang in there when the going gets
rough - one wouldn't want to find out that a senstitivy to negitive G causes
you to "blow up" in hard, single pilot, IFR.

Other than that - practice and build tolerance - it can really make a
difference. Bob Hoover taught himself to fly acro as a way to get over
air-sickness.

Note: I am not recommending "learn yourself acrobatics" - yes Bob Hoover was
able to do it, but Bob Hoover is Bob Hoover - you and I ain't.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 25, 7:29 pm, wrote:
> On Mar 25, 4:24 pm, john smith > wrote:
>
> > My thoughts are to take care of flying in the following order:
>
> > 1. airspeed - increasing... pull back on the throttle; decreasing...
> > push in on the throttle
>
> > 2. pitch attitude - nose down... pull back on the yoke/stick; nose up...
> > push forward on the yoke/stick
>
> > 3. roll attitude - roll left/right to wings level
>
> There are a few different ways that advice could kill you.
>
> If your airspeed is too high, DON'T pitch up before checking your bank
> angle. If you're in a high-speed spiral dive and you apply back
> elevator, you could worsen the spiral and overstress the airplane.
> Instead, roll level first (and put the throttle to idle), and see what
> happens. If the plane pitches up sharply--which can happen because
> you're now at high speed with abruptly less load factor--then you may
> not need to apply back elevator at all, and indeed may even need some
> forward pressure to prevent too steep an upward pitch.

Absolutely!

[Eamon McKinley]

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:01:48 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea
Hawk At Wow Way D0t C0m> wrote:

>"Eamon McKinley" > wrote in message
...
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I'm about a week away from taking my instrument checkride, but I'm
>> lacking in one area I thought would be a breeze. After spending months
>> practicing holds, approaches & arcs I was double-checking the PTS and
>> realised that we had not practised unusual attitudes. My CFII told me
>> they would be no problem and we would cover them before the checkride.
>> Well, a few days ago we attempted a couple and I totally blew it.
>> Basically I became so disoriented and uncomfortable during the setup,
>> I was unable to cope. In each case it was a negatives that got me.
><...>
>
>
>What kind of problems do you have in turbulance?
>

Never had a problem.

>Getting bounced around in the soup is not like in VMC - your eyes and inner
>ear are just not going to agree.
>
>How much time in actual IMC do you have? I would give some thought to riding
>along with another pilot to see if you can hang in there when the going gets
>rough - one wouldn't want to find out that a senstitivy to negitive G causes
>you to "blow up" in hard, single pilot, IFR.
>

I have about 5 hours actual.

>Other than that - practice and build tolerance - it can really make a
>difference. Bob Hoover taught himself to fly acro as a way to get over
>air-sickness.
>

During my primary training I never had a problem with unusual
attitudes. So either I've changed or the CFI is the difference. As I
mentioned in the OP, I think it's a stylistic difference between
CFI's; my current CFI is excellent but for some reason he thinks it's
important to make me uncomfortable during the setup for an unusual
attitude. I want to get good at this stuff but he's freaked me out
twice and now it feels like I've hit a psychological stumbling block.

>Note: I am not recommending "learn yourself acrobatics" - yes Bob Hoover was
>able to do it, but Bob Hoover is Bob Hoover - you and I ain't.

I was going to do that anyway before this happened.

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Eamon McKinley" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:01:48 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea
> Hawk At Wow Way D0t C0m> wrote:
>><...>
>>
>>
>>What kind of problems do you have in turbulance?
>>
>
> Never had a problem.
>

Ok - just had to ask, eh?

<...>
> During my primary training I never had a problem with unusual
> attitudes. So either I've changed or the CFI is the difference. As I
> mentioned in the OP, I think it's a stylistic difference between
> CFI's; my current CFI is excellent but for some reason he thinks it's
> important to make me uncomfortable during the setup for an unusual
> attitude. I want to get good at this stuff but he's freaked me out
> twice and now it feels like I've hit a psychological stumbling block.

I wouldn't be surprised if they set up differently - and this guy just hits
you the wrong way. I will note that my tolerance has gone down with lack of
exposure and age...

>
>>Note: I am not recommending "learn yourself acrobatics" - yes Bob Hoover
>>was
>>able to do it, but Bob Hoover is Bob Hoover - you and I ain't.
>
> I was going to do that anyway before this happened.

Exposure does build tolerance.


--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Mike Adams[_2_]]

Eamon McKinley > wrote:

> Thoughts & advice would be very much appreciated.
>
If your experience is anything like mine was, you'll have absolutely no problem. The DE I had was a
master of deception on this. He was able to put the airplane in the most awful situation, with hardly any
unusual g's. He was very smooth (and clever) in making the airplane's attitude NOT agree with the
sensory inputs. I don't know how he did it, but it was very effective. Trying to figure out where we were
going based on the seat of the pants just didn't work. So, I'd say focus on your recovery technique (as
other replies have described) and don't worry about the g's.

Mike

[Eamon McKinley]

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:27:14 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea
Hawk At Wow Way D0t C0m> wrote:

>Exposure does build tolerance.

Yes sir. If I ever become a CFI I'm going to start practicing unusual
attitudes nice and early in the student's training rather than a week
before the checkride!

[Barry]

>>Exposure does build tolerance.
>
> Yes sir. If I ever become a CFI I'm going to start practicing unusual
> attitudes nice and early in the student's training rather than a week
> before the checkride!

This is another good example of why it's so important to use a good syllabus.
The Jeppesen syllabus I've used includes unusual attitude recovery in lessons
1, 3, 5, 6, 8, and 12, and in three stage checks as well.

[Ash Wyllie]

john smith opined

>Eamon McKinley wrote:
>> Thoughts & advice would be very much appreciated.

>My thoughts are to take care of flying in the following order:

>1. airspeed - increasing... pull back on the throttle; decreasing...
>push in on the throttle

>2. pitch attitude - nose down... pull back on the yoke/stick; nose up...
>push forward on the yoke/stick

>3. roll attitude - roll left/right to wings level

check airspeed
low high
nose down, level wings level wings, nose up



-ash
Cthulhu in 2008!
Vote the greater evil.

[Barry]

> Power off
> Level the wings
> nose to the horizon
> power to hold nose on the horizon

I agree with the sequence, but don't forget that the attitude indictor might
be wrong. In fact, an instrument or vacuum failure is a likely cause of
getting into an unusual attitude in the first place.

The IR PTS used to specify that the unusual attitude recovery be done partial
panel, but this was apparently changed in the last revision. I think that
instrument students should be taught to recover from unusual attitudes without
the attitude indicator - use turn coordinator for bank, and airspeed/VSI for
pitch. Once things are under control, then check the AI and see if it agrees.

On an instrument proficiency check, I like to do unusual attitude recovery
near the end. I cover the attitude indicator while the pilot has his eyes
closed, have him recover, then continue on partial panel and do the partial
panel approach. You can only surprise a pilot once with this, but it can be
effective. If a simulator or ground trainer is available and you can fail
instruments, that's much better.

Barry

[Bob F.[_2_]]

Yup, One of my favorite "tricks" in UA training it to rotate the "bar" full
up while the student has his head in his lap to see how much reliability the
student has on the AI and can figure out that it has "failed". IOW, can he
do a cross check quickly enough, you know, like before we hit the surface
would be nice. I get an amazing number nail the horizon and take way too
much time still going down before they put it together. The good news is, I
never caught anyone twice.

--
Regards, BobF.
"Barry" > wrote in message
. ..
>> Power off
>> Level the wings
>> nose to the horizon
>> power to hold nose on the horizon
>
> I agree with the sequence, but don't forget that the attitude indictor
> might be wrong. In fact, an instrument or vacuum failure is a likely
> cause of getting into an unusual attitude in the first place.
>
> The IR PTS used to specify that the unusual attitude recovery be done
> partial panel, but this was apparently changed in the last revision. I
> think that instrument students should be taught to recover from unusual
> attitudes without the attitude indicator - use turn coordinator for bank,
> and airspeed/VSI for pitch. Once things are under control, then check the
> AI and see if it agrees.
>
> On an instrument proficiency check, I like to do unusual attitude recovery
> near the end. I cover the attitude indicator while the pilot has his eyes
> closed, have him recover, then continue on partial panel and do the
> partial panel approach. You can only surprise a pilot once with this, but
> it can be effective. If a simulator or ground trainer is available and
> you can fail instruments, that's much better.
>
> Barry
>

[Ron Natalie]

john smith wrote:
> Eamon McKinley wrote:
>> Thoughts & advice would be very much appreciated.
>
> My thoughts are to take care of flying in the following order:
>
> 1. airspeed - increasing... pull back on the throttle; decreasing...
> push in on the throttle
>
> 2. pitch attitude - nose down... pull back on the yoke/stick; nose up...
> push forward on the yoke/stick
>
> 3. roll attitude - roll left/right to wings level

This is NOT the generally taught method.
You must roll the wings level before pulling back to break a dive
or you risk just pulling yourself into a graveyard spiral.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

In addition to all the other good advice you got here, i'll add this.
Recovery should be smooth and deliberate. Not to quick and not too slow,
but above all, smooth. Not so much for the examiner, but for any real life
situation which neccesitates a recovery from an unusual attitude be it imc
or vmc

Bertie

[gatt[_2_]]

"Eamon McKinley" > wrote in message
...

> On the ground we discussed the situation and my CFII told me that he
> likes to be aggressive with the unusual attitudes in order that I can
> handle the worst cases. He also said the CE he uses likes to do the
> same. Rather than cancel the checkride, his recommendation was that
> one of us briefs the DE that I have low negative G tolerance. I don't
> know how I feel about this, it seems like a cop-out to be quite
> honest.


Boy, that could be trouble if the DE decides that he's going to test your
tolerance in light of that.

My chief instructor for instrument and commercial made a point to do unusual
attitude recovery every time we turned home from dual instruction. For
some people it comes instinctively, but for me I might have lucked out with
a couple of instructors who loved to do them.

If partial G forces trouble you then it might be worth doing them several
times with your eyes open so you can physiologically condition yourself so
that it's easier to prepare pyschologically.

-c

[John T]

"Eamon McKinley" > wrote in message

>
> Thoughts & advice would be very much appreciated.

The goal is to put you in an unusual attitude, not introduce you to
aerobatics. I've not had a DE use strong inputs to disorient me during a
checkride and, as others have mentioned, putting you in an unusual attitude
can be done in a disorienting way without un/loading the airplane much at
all.

There was one time I got in a slightly unusual attitude between layers. It
was a combination of sloping clouds and my reading notes on my lap for a few
seconds that did it for me. While the attitude was not serious (only about a
15 degree bank and maybe 8 degrees nose up), it was not "usual" for that
phase of flight - and I didn't feel the slightest G load getting there.

One instructor I used had me close my eyes, look at my lap, then asked me to
turn, climb, level, turn, level, descend, level, open eyes - and whaddaya
know, I was most assuredly not in level flight. Considering how I got myself
into the attitude I described above, maybe this instructor's technique has
some merit.

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/blogs/TknoFlyer
http://sage1solutions.com/products
NEW! FlyteBalance v2.0 (W&B); FlyteLog v2.0 (Logbook)
____________________

[Barney Rubble]

That's the best advice. I once got into the start of a graveyard spiral on a
VERY turbulent day when I took my eye off the ball for a split second to
tune the radio. When i glanced back I noticed the plane was 90 degrees off
heading and the VSI was pegged downwards. It happened in less than 2
seconds, I kid you not. Instinct took over and I levelled the wings and got
the altitude back on track before the controller even noticed. Boy did I get
the cold chills. I was single pilot in heavy IMC with the rian beating on
the windshield, moderate turb PIREPS all around and minimums below. Not a
goot time to let things slide. I was back on alt and heading before the
controller even noticed.... I'm pleased I practiced UA and smooth control of
the plane.

- Barney

[Ken S. Tucker]

Hi Barney - not :-) - Rubble.

On Apr 3, 9:00 am, "Barney Rubble" > wrote:
> That's the best advice. I once got into the start of a graveyard spiral on a
> VERY turbulent day when I took my eye off the ball for a split second to
> tune the radio. When i glanced back I noticed the plane was 90 degrees off
> heading and the VSI was pegged downwards. It happened in less than 2
> seconds, I kid you not. Instinct took over and I levelled the wings and got
> the altitude back on track before the controller even noticed. Boy did I get
> the cold chills. I was single pilot in heavy IMC with the rian beating on
> the windshield, moderate turb PIREPS all around and minimums below. Not a
> goot time to let things slide. I was back on alt and heading before the
> controller even noticed.... I'm pleased I practiced UA and smooth control of
> the plane.
> - Barney

That's damn interesting. Consider a vortex, we see
them as tornadoes when they actually mature and
touch down to the ground.
But suppose only 1 in a hundred, actually become
mature tornadoes and the rest exist in bad weather,
inside clouds that Barney may have encountered.

There is a lot of different kinds of turbulence, that
could appear in seconds as one flys into a vortex.

I've seen plenty of photo's of little titties on the bottom
of storm clouds, (I think they are usually Nimbo Stratus,
but not always), that dissipated.

That gives me an idea for a new instrument,
something like a "stall buzzer".
If a delta attitude occurs, that is NOT a result of an
control input, then that would warn of either a
weather or structural anomally. Fortunately for
Barney it was a weather anomally.

Don't quite know how to build it yet but that's just
application of ingenuity.
Regards
Ken S. Tucker

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Ken S. Tucker" > wrote in
:

> Hi Barney - not :-) - Rubble.
>
> On Apr 3, 9:00 am, "Barney Rubble" > wrote:
>> That's the best advice. I once got into the start of a graveyard
>> spiral on a VERY turbulent day when I took my eye off the ball for a
>> split second to tune the radio. When i glanced back I noticed the
>> plane was 90 degrees off heading and the VSI was pegged downwards. It
>> happened in less than 2 seconds, I kid you not. Instinct took over
>> and I levelled the wings and got the altitude back on track before
>> the controller even noticed. Boy did I get the cold chills. I was
>> single pilot in heavy IMC with the rian beating on the windshield,
>> moderate turb PIREPS all around and minimums below. Not a goot time
>> to let things slide. I was back on alt and heading before the
>> controller even noticed.... I'm pleased I practiced UA and smooth
>> control of the plane.
>> - Barney
>
> That's damn interesting. Consider a vortex, we see
> them as tornadoes when they actually mature and
> touch down to the ground.
> But suppose only 1 in a hundred, actually become
> mature tornadoes and the rest exist in bad weather,
> inside clouds that Barney may have encountered.
>
> There is a lot of different kinds of turbulence, that
> could appear in seconds as one flys into a vortex.
>
> I've seen plenty of photo's of little titties on the bottom
> of storm clouds, (I think they are usually Nimbo Stratus,
> but not always), that dissipated.
>
> That gives me an idea for a new instrument,
> something like a "stall buzzer".
> If a delta attitude occurs, that is NOT a result of an
> control input, then that would warn of either a
> weather or structural anomally. Fortunately for
> Barney it was a weather anomally.
>
> Don't quite know how to build it yet but that's just
> application of ingenuity.
> Regards
> Ken S. Tucker
>

Good lord, is there nothing you know something about~?

Bertie

[Stefan]

john smith schrieb:

>> I've seen plenty of photo's of little titties on the bottom
>> of storm clouds, (I think they are usually Nimbo Stratus,
>> but not always), that dissipated.
>
> Cumulo Mamatus

Close. Mammatus or mamma is not a cloud, but a special form of the cloud
base. It mostly appears on CBs, but can also appear with any other cloud
form. And yes, it's called mammatus because it resembles mammae, making
it one of the most erotic cloud forms.

So a cumulonimbus mammatus is a cumulonimbus with that special cloud base.

[Les Izmore]

One of the most erotic cloud forms?

Can't beat the Cirrus of the Year in the centerfold of this month's
Sensual Meteorology, for my money.

Never made it out of the airport bathroom...


On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:48:01 +0200, Stefan >
wrote:

>john smith schrieb:
>
>>> I've seen plenty of photo's of little titties on the bottom
>>> of storm clouds, (I think they are usually Nimbo Stratus,
>>> but not always), that dissipated.
>>
>> Cumulo Mamatus
>
>Close. Mammatus or mamma is not a cloud, but a special form of the cloud
>base. It mostly appears on CBs, but can also appear with any other cloud
>form. And yes, it's called mammatus because it resembles mammae, making
>it one of the most erotic cloud forms.
>
>So a cumulonimbus mammatus is a cumulonimbus with that special cloud base.

[Ken S. Tucker]

On Apr 3, 11:48 am, Stefan > wrote:
> john smith schrieb:
>
> >> I've seen plenty of photo's of little titties on the bottom
> >> of storm clouds, (I think they are usually Nimbo Stratus,
> >> but not always), that dissipated.
>
> > Cumulo Mamatus
>
> Close. Mammatus or mamma is not a cloud, but a special form of the cloud
> base. It mostly appears on CBs, but can also appear with any other cloud
> form. And yes, it's called mammatus because it resembles mammae, making
> it one of the most erotic cloud forms.
>
> So a cumulonimbus mammatus is a cumulonimbus with that special cloud base.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammatus_cloud
Thanks for the input.
Ken

[[email protected]]

On Apr 3, 1:00 pm, "Barney Rubble" > wrote:
> That's the best advice. I once got into the start of a graveyard spiral on a
> VERY turbulent day when I took my eye off the ball for a split second to
> tune the radio. When i glanced back I noticed the plane was 90 degrees off
> heading and the VSI was pegged downwards. It happened in less than 2
> seconds, I kid you not. Instinct took over and I levelled the wings and got
> the altitude back on track before the controller even noticed. Boy did I get
> the cold chills. I was single pilot in heavy IMC with the rian beating on
> the windshield, moderate turb PIREPS all around and minimums below. Not a
> goot time to let things slide. I was back on alt and heading before the
> controller even noticed.... I'm pleased I practiced UA and smooth control of
> the plane.
>
> - Barney

Though I have a reputation as a Luddite, I will chime in that an
autopilot is the best friend a Single Pilot flying IFR can possess.

Even if you hand fly most of the time, it helps plenty to hand over
the straight and level chore for a moment to fetch a chart or write
down a frequency (which hardly ever matches what you're expecting
based on the charts).


Dan Mc

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Ken S. Tucker" > wrote in
:

> On Apr 3, 11:48 am, Stefan > wrote:
>> john smith schrieb:
>>
>> >> I've seen plenty of photo's of little titties on the bottom
>> >> of storm clouds, (I think they are usually Nimbo Stratus,
>> >> but not always), that dissipated.
>>
>> > Cumulo Mamatus
>>
>> Close. Mammatus or mamma is not a cloud, but a special form of the
>> cloud base. It mostly appears on CBs, but can also appear with any
>> other cloud form. And yes, it's called mammatus because it resembles
>> mammae, making it one of the most erotic cloud forms.
>>
>> So a cumulonimbus mammatus is a cumulonimbus with that special cloud
>> base.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammatus_cloud
> Thanks for the input.



Like you;'d know what to do with it,. k00k.






Bertie
>
>
>
>

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Eamon McKinley" > wrote in message
...
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm about a week away from taking my instrument checkride, but I'm
> lacking in one area I thought would be a breeze.
<...>

So, d00d, how did it go?


--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.