Unusual attitude recovery advice sought

Hello everyone,

I'm about a week away from taking my instrument checkride, but I'm
lacking in one area I thought would be a breeze. After spending months
practicing holds, approaches & arcs I was double-checking the PTS and
realised that we had not practised unusual attitudes. My CFII told me
they would be no problem and we would cover them before the checkride.
Well, a few days ago we attempted a couple and I totally blew it.
Basically I became so disoriented and uncomfortable during the setup,
I was unable to cope. In each case it was a negatives that got me.

Because I was still suffering the residual effects of the flu we
decided to wait and try them again. After easing me into the saddle
with a gentle setup I made a good recovery. Unfortunately he gave me
some more negative G's on the next one and I couldn't handle it- I
grunted and reached out for the controls before he said "recover".

On the ground we discussed the situation and my CFII told me that he
likes to be aggressive with the unusual attitudes in order that I can
handle the worst cases. He also said the CE he uses likes to do the
same. Rather than cancel the checkride, his recommendation was that
one of us briefs the DE that I have low negative G tolerance. I don't
know how I feel about this, it seems like a cop-out to be quite
honest.

Thoughts & advice would be very much appreciated.

On Mar 25, 3:07*pm, Eamon McKinley wrote:
Unfortunately he gave me
some more negative G's on the next one and I couldn't handle it- I
grunted and reached out for the controls before he said "recover".

On the ground we discussed the situation and my CFII told me that he
likes to be aggressive with the unusual attitudes in order that I can
handle the worst cases. He also said the CE he uses likes to do the
same. Rather than cancel the checkride, his recommendation was that
one of us briefs the DE that I have low negative G tolerance. I don't
know how I feel about this, it seems like a cop-out to be quite
honest.

Interesting question. Being able to handle the worst is certainly a
good idea. On the other hand, nothing in the instrument PTS requires
enduring negative Gs; I don't think my instructors used anything more
aggressive than lazy 8s or chandelles to set up unusual attitudes.

If you're going to ask the DE to avoid negative Gs, I'd suggest doing
so well before the day of the practical test. That way, if the DE
isn't going to grant your request, you can find that out before you're
committed to pay for the checkride.

"Eamon McKinley" wrote in message
...
Hello everyone,

I'm about a week away from taking my instrument checkride, but I'm
lacking in one area I thought would be a breeze. After spending months
practicing holds, approaches & arcs I was double-checking the PTS and
realised that we had not practised unusual attitudes. My CFII told me
they would be no problem and we would cover them before the checkride.
Well, a few days ago we attempted a couple and I totally blew it.
Basically I became so disoriented and uncomfortable during the setup,
I was unable to cope. In each case it was a negatives that got me.
...


What kind of problems do you have in turbulance?

Getting bounced around in the soup is not like in VMC - your eyes and inner
ear are just not going to agree.

How much time in actual IMC do you have? I would give some thought to riding
along with another pilot to see if you can hang in there when the going gets
rough - one wouldn't want to find out that a senstitivy to negitive G causes
you to "blow up" in hard, single pilot, IFR.

Other than that - practice and build tolerance - it can really make a
difference. Bob Hoover taught himself to fly acro as a way to get over
air-sickness.

Note: I am not recommending "learn yourself acrobatics" - yes Bob Hoover was
able to do it, but Bob Hoover is Bob Hoover - you and I ain't.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:01:48 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea
Hawk At Wow Way D0t C0m wrote:

"Eamon McKinley" wrote in message
.. .
Hello everyone,

I'm about a week away from taking my instrument checkride, but I'm
lacking in one area I thought would be a breeze. After spending months
practicing holds, approaches & arcs I was double-checking the PTS and
realised that we had not practised unusual attitudes. My CFII told me
they would be no problem and we would cover them before the checkride.
Well, a few days ago we attempted a couple and I totally blew it.
Basically I became so disoriented and uncomfortable during the setup,
I was unable to cope. In each case it was a negatives that got me.
...


What kind of problems do you have in turbulance?


Never had a problem.

Getting bounced around in the soup is not like in VMC - your eyes and inner
ear are just not going to agree.

How much time in actual IMC do you have? I would give some thought to riding
along with another pilot to see if you can hang in there when the going gets
rough - one wouldn't want to find out that a senstitivy to negitive G causes
you to "blow up" in hard, single pilot, IFR.


I have about 5 hours actual.

Other than that - practice and build tolerance - it can really make a
difference. Bob Hoover taught himself to fly acro as a way to get over
air-sickness.


During my primary training I never had a problem with unusual
attitudes. So either I've changed or the CFI is the difference. As I
mentioned in the OP, I think it's a stylistic difference between
CFI's; my current CFI is excellent but for some reason he thinks it's
important to make me uncomfortable during the setup for an unusual
attitude. I want to get good at this stuff but he's freaked me out
twice and now it feels like I've hit a psychological stumbling block.

Note: I am not recommending "learn yourself acrobatics" - yes Bob Hoover was
able to do it, but Bob Hoover is Bob Hoover - you and I ain't.

I was going to do that anyway before this happened.

"Eamon McKinley" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:01:48 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea
Hawk At Wow Way D0t C0m wrote:
...


What kind of problems do you have in turbulance?


Never had a problem.


Ok - just had to ask, eh?

...
During my primary training I never had a problem with unusual
attitudes. So either I've changed or the CFI is the difference. As I
mentioned in the OP, I think it's a stylistic difference between
CFI's; my current CFI is excellent but for some reason he thinks it's
important to make me uncomfortable during the setup for an unusual
attitude. I want to get good at this stuff but he's freaked me out
twice and now it feels like I've hit a psychological stumbling block.

I wouldn't be surprised if they set up differently - and this guy just hits
you the wrong way. I will note that my tolerance has gone down with lack of
exposure and age...


Note: I am not recommending "learn yourself acrobatics" - yes Bob Hoover
was
able to do it, but Bob Hoover is Bob Hoover - you and I ain't.

I was going to do that anyway before this happened.

Exposure does build tolerance.


--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:27:14 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea
Hawk At Wow Way D0t C0m wrote:

Exposure does build tolerance.

Yes sir. If I ever become a CFI I'm going to start practicing unusual
attitudes nice and early in the student's training rather than a week
before the checkride!

Exposure does build tolerance.

Yes sir. If I ever become a CFI I'm going to start practicing unusual
attitudes nice and early in the student's training rather than a week
before the checkride!

This is another good example of why it's so important to use a good syllabus.
The Jeppesen syllabus I've used includes unusual attitude recovery in lessons
1, 3, 5, 6, 8, and 12, and in three stage checks as well.

Eamon McKinley wrote:

Thoughts & advice would be very much appreciated.

If your experience is anything like mine was, you'll have absolutely no problem. The DE I had was a
master of deception on this. He was able to put the airplane in the most awful situation, with hardly any
unusual g's. He was very smooth (and clever) in making the airplane's attitude NOT agree with the
sensory inputs. I don't know how he did it, but it was very effective. Trying to figure out where we were
going based on the seat of the pants just didn't work. So, I'd say focus on your recovery technique (as
other replies have described) and don't worry about the g's.

Mike

In addition to all the other good advice you got here, i'll add this.
Recovery should be smooth and deliberate. Not to quick and not too slow,
but above all, smooth. Not so much for the examiner, but for any real life
situation which neccesitates a recovery from an unusual attitude be it imc
or vmc

Bertie

That's the best advice. I once got into the start of a graveyard spiral on a
VERY turbulent day when I took my eye off the ball for a split second to
tune the radio. When i glanced back I noticed the plane was 90 degrees off
heading and the VSI was pegged downwards. It happened in less than 2
seconds, I kid you not. Instinct took over and I levelled the wings and got
the altitude back on track before the controller even noticed. Boy did I get
the cold chills. I was single pilot in heavy IMC with the rian beating on
the windshield, moderate turb PIREPS all around and minimums below. Not a
goot time to let things slide. I was back on alt and heading before the
controller even noticed.... I'm pleased I practiced UA and smooth control of
the plane.

- Barney