Drunk pilot loses certificate

C J Campbell ) wrote:

snip
Apparently this guy was a solid citizen who had never done anything like
this before. Makes you wonder what happened to him.

I believe you meant to type that he was a citizen who never got *caught*
before. Who here can say whether this individual has ever flown under the
influence prior to this incident?

IMO, I hope he never gets his certificate back.

--
Peter












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Hmm. No wonder I don't watch the news. Either this guy was a solid, stand-up
citizen who has made one mistake in his life OR he is a drunk, has been a
drunk, always will be a drunk.

I'm guessing that I don't really know who he is or what really happened. I'm
also guessing that I never really will. I just hope that the FAA treats him
fairly, that he resolves whatever personal or physical issues he may have,
and that, someday, he gets to fly again.

But that's just my opinion!
--
-------------------------------


Travis
"Peter R." wrote in message
...
C J Campbell ) wrote:

snip
Apparently this guy was a solid citizen who had never done anything like
this before. Makes you wonder what happened to him.

I believe you meant to type that he was a citizen who never got *caught*
before. Who here can say whether this individual has ever flown under
the
influence prior to this incident?

IMO, I hope he never gets his certificate back.

--
Peter












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News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000
Newsgroups
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"Travis Marlatte" wrote in message
link.net...
Hmm. No wonder I don't watch the news. Either this guy was a solid,
stand-up
citizen who has made one mistake in his life OR he is a drunk, has been a
drunk, always will be a drunk.

More likely the latter.


I'm guessing that I don't really know who he is or what really happened.
I'm
also guessing that I never really will. I just hope that the FAA treats
him
fairly, that he resolves whatever personal or physical issues he may have,
and that, someday, he gets to fly again.

Doesn't matter who he is; what matters is that he endangered hundreds of
people with a stunt that would make a teenager blush.

Tom

Hate to drop a brick on your foot, especially if you have it in your
mouth for being so equivocal.

I've see a number of individuals who drank from wake up to the time
their eyes closed for sleep at night.

They were able to pass any and all tests of ANY kind (memory, verbal,
body activity, etc) given to them other than a breathalizer (sp) which
only measures a approximation of alcohol in the body, not any
impairment. The powers that be, assume impairment with an arbitrary
level measured.

How do you know this individual was not one whose body assimilated
alcohol in a manner that did not effect normal activities by any
measure (test)? Were the results of any impairment tests published?

One last shot over the bow. How many stone cold sober individuals have
flown through controlled airspace (the alleged activity)? Were their
ticket revoked?

Big John



On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:38:25 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller"
wrote:


"Travis Marlatte" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Hmm. No wonder I don't watch the news. Either this guy was a solid,
stand-up
citizen who has made one mistake in his life OR he is a drunk, has been a
drunk, always will be a drunk.

More likely the latter.


I'm guessing that I don't really know who he is or what really happened.
I'm
also guessing that I never really will. I just hope that the FAA treats
him
fairly, that he resolves whatever personal or physical issues he may have,
and that, someday, he gets to fly again.

Doesn't matter who he is; what matters is that he endangered hundreds of
people with a stunt that would make a teenager blush.

"Big John" wrote in message
...

How do you know this individual was not one whose body assimilated
alcohol in a manner that did not effect normal activities by any
measure (test)? Were the results of any impairment tests published?


Presumably because he was repeatedly busting class B and
causing other traffic to divert.

Big John wrote:

I've see a number of individuals who drank from wake up to the time
their eyes closed for sleep at night.

They were able to pass any and all tests of ANY kind (memory, verbal,
body activity, etc) given to them other than a breathalizer (sp) which
only measures a approximation of alcohol in the body, not any
impairment. The powers that be, assume impairment with an arbitrary
level measured.

How do you know this individual was not one whose body assimilated
alcohol in a manner that did not effect normal activities by any
measure (test)? Were the results of any impairment tests published?

The tolerance of long-term users of alcohol is somewhat of a myth.
Alcoholics certainly are able to appear to "hold" their liquor by not
having the same loss of motor skills and reaction times as casual users,
but those measures are not the complete story. Alcohol affects many
things, such as depth perception, night vision, the ability to do
multitasking, judgment, concentration, and so on. Many of these more
complex, but less obvious abilities are affected by the same amount
whether or not the person has gained a tolerance for alcohol. There are
precisely the skills that are necessary for safe flight.

Long term alcohol use does create a tolerance, which manifests itself
mostly in the area of motor skills. It takes a higher blood alcohol
content for an alcoholic to reach the same level of "impairment' as a
casual drinker, as measured by motor skill and reaction time testing.
However, while motor skills might be less affected, most research
suggests that alcohol equally affects those with an alcohol tolerance
and those without. Judgment and the ability to do several things at the
same time are prominent on those lists.

Alcoholics are the most dangerous, since they think they are not
affected, and other people don't notice the effects as quickly. However,
they do have many of the same physical reactions to alcohol,
particularly those which are critical to safety. These can include a
lowered ability to judge distances, to track other objects and determine
points of path intersection, some loss of night vision, and reduced
ability to absorb external information.

In particular, testing has been performed on simulators, and it has been
found that while a pilot with a tolerance for alcohol might be able to
fly a routine flight with an elevated blood alcohol level with no
noticeable problems, things change when his workload increases. The
alcoholic pilot tends to concentrate on the mechanics of flying to the
exclusion of all else, just as much as a casual drinker. This results
in a tendency to overcontrol, lapses in judgment, and a tendency to
block out more and more external information, such as inputs from
peripheral vision, radio communications, non-essential gauges, and so
on. In short, they focus, and lose the ability to absorb and evaluate
information. Imagine what happens in IMC with a partial panel failure,
or a fuel problem while trying to stabilize for landing.

Because alcohol has similar effects on all people for the more complex
tasks, the impairment levels are not arbitrary, and long term alcohol
use does not give people immunity from its effects.

James

I was/am familiar with what you say and have two comments.

1. There are always exceptions to the rules. One of my points was that
no effort was made to see if the pilot was an exception.

2. Your statement about night vision I take exception to. During my
tenure in the Air Defense Command (USAF) where we flew at night and in
bad Wx a lot, a study was commissioned and the results showed that an
ounce of alcohol would increase night acuity (and adaption) and reduce
accidents.

Of course all the 'jocks' clamored for a 'shot' before flying at night
but the powers that be felt that the 'great unwashed masses' wouldn't
understand pilots drinking before flying.

So safety be damned.

Big John.



On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 20:42:17 GMT, James Robinson
wrote:

Big John wrote:

I've see a number of individuals who drank from wake up to the time
their eyes closed for sleep at night.

They were able to pass any and all tests of ANY kind (memory, verbal,
body activity, etc) given to them other than a breathalizer (sp) which
only measures a approximation of alcohol in the body, not any
impairment. The powers that be, assume impairment with an arbitrary
level measured.

How do you know this individual was not one whose body assimilated
alcohol in a manner that did not effect normal activities by any
measure (test)? Were the results of any impairment tests published?

The tolerance of long-term users of alcohol is somewhat of a myth.
Alcoholics certainly are able to appear to "hold" their liquor by not
having the same loss of motor skills and reaction times as casual users,
but those measures are not the complete story. Alcohol affects many
things, such as depth perception, night vision, the ability to do
multitasking, judgment, concentration, and so on. Many of these more
complex, but less obvious abilities are affected by the same amount
whether or not the person has gained a tolerance for alcohol. There are
precisely the skills that are necessary for safe flight.

Long term alcohol use does create a tolerance, which manifests itself
mostly in the area of motor skills. It takes a higher blood alcohol
content for an alcoholic to reach the same level of "impairment' as a
casual drinker, as measured by motor skill and reaction time testing.
However, while motor skills might be less affected, most research
suggests that alcohol equally affects those with an alcohol tolerance
and those without. Judgment and the ability to do several things at the
same time are prominent on those lists.

Alcoholics are the most dangerous, since they think they are not
affected, and other people don't notice the effects as quickly. However,
they do have many of the same physical reactions to alcohol,
particularly those which are critical to safety. These can include a
lowered ability to judge distances, to track other objects and determine
points of path intersection, some loss of night vision, and reduced
ability to absorb external information.

In particular, testing has been performed on simulators, and it has been
found that while a pilot with a tolerance for alcohol might be able to
fly a routine flight with an elevated blood alcohol level with no
noticeable problems, things change when his workload increases. The
alcoholic pilot tends to concentrate on the mechanics of flying to the
exclusion of all else, just as much as a casual drinker. This results
in a tendency to overcontrol, lapses in judgment, and a tendency to
block out more and more external information, such as inputs from
peripheral vision, radio communications, non-essential gauges, and so
on. In short, they focus, and lose the ability to absorb and evaluate
information. Imagine what happens in IMC with a partial panel failure,
or a fuel problem while trying to stabilize for landing.

Because alcohol has similar effects on all people for the more complex
tasks, the impairment levels are not arbitrary, and long term alcohol
use does not give people immunity from its effects.

Big John wrote:

James

I was/am familiar with what you say and have two comments.

1. There are always exceptions to the rules. One of my points was that
no effort was made to see if the pilot was an exception.

He blew a 0.13 on a breathalyzer when he landed. There is no reason to
look for an exception, he was way over the limit.

2. Your statement about night vision I take exception to.

It has been well documented over the years. If the pilot had taken any
tranquilizers along with the alcohol, the deleterious effect on night
vision is amplified. Here are a couple of web pages with further
discussion:

http://www.cs.wright.edu/bie/rehaben...ionalcohol.htm
http://www.dol.gov/asp/programs/drug...ss/affects.asp

During my tenure in the Air Defense Command (USAF) where we flew at
night and in bad Wx a lot, a study was commissioned and the results
showed that an ounce of alcohol would increase night acuity (and
adaption) and reduce accidents.

The pilot had something like 7 ounces in his system, assuming typical
weight. That reverses the effect.


Of course all the 'jocks' clamored for a 'shot' before flying at night
but the powers that be felt that the 'great unwashed masses' wouldn't
understand pilots drinking before flying.

Drinking has too many ill effects to even consider using it before
flying. Even if it might help in some way, it hurts in too many others.
For a start, it is a depressant and would make people drowsy. Not
something you want on a long combat mission. Even 0.02% has shown a
negative effect on reaction, judgment, and alertness. Anyone who thinks
it is useful is mistaken.

People who think they have a tolerance for it, and can therefore operate
any type of equipment with higher than normal allowances are deluding
themselves.

2. Your statement about night vision I take exception to. During my
tenure in the Air Defense Command (USAF) where we flew at night and in
bad Wx a lot, a study was commissioned and the results showed that an
ounce of alcohol would increase night acuity (and adaption) and reduce
accidents.

So if a shot is good, a fifth should give you X-Ray vision. Somehow I
doubt that the pilot in question had a blood alcohol of 0.15 from 1
shot, or that his vision was better with that much alcohol in his
system. Yes, a small amount of alcohol can be beneficial, but give me
a break!

I for one am glad that he lost his license. He doesn't deserve to
have it after showing such poor judgement. Pilots can and should be
held to a higher standard than drivers in this regard. For that
matter, drunk drivers often get away with DUI after DUI until they
finally kill someone.

Dean

"Big John" wrote in message
...

Of course all the 'jocks' clamored for a 'shot' before flying at night
but the powers that be felt that the 'great unwashed masses' wouldn't
understand pilots drinking before flying.

One ounce of alcohol a day will make you live longer and signifigantly
reduces the probability of altzheimers at 70, but that does not mean a lot
of alcohol is a good thing.