Cell phones in the air

Roger Worden wrote:
I've seen a couple of references to someone not wanting us to use
cell
phones while gliding. I haven't seen the reason... what's the
rationale?

In the US there are FCC regulations prohibiting the use any aircraft -
from a FCC web page: Section 22.925 of the Commission's rules, 47 CFR
Part 22, provides that cellular telephones installed in, or carried
aboard airplanes, balloons, or any other type of aircraft, must not be
operated while the aircraft is off the ground. The FCC concern is
interference they may cause.

That was very useful. I knew about the IFR and carrier restrictions
in the FAA regs against cell use (and I think it even covers
taxiing) but I didn't know the FCC stuff. Thanks!

In article . com,
rromanATfrontiernetDOTnet wrote:

Roger Worden wrote:
I've seen a couple of references to someone not wanting us to use
cell
phones while gliding. I haven't seen the reason... what's the
rationale?

In the US there are FCC regulations prohibiting the use any aircraft -
from a FCC web page: Section 22.925 of the Commission's rules, 47 CFR
Part 22, provides that cellular telephones installed in, or carried
aboard airplanes, balloons, or any other type of aircraft, must not be
operated while the aircraft is off the ground. The FCC concern is
interference they may cause.



--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

I heard recently on NPR the FAA is conducting studies on commercial
aircraft with cell phones and approval may come in a couple of years.
Clearly a good news bad news for those of us with frequent biz-travel
(an enforced respite from the phone is nice and who hasn't had enough
of overhearing someone yelling "can you hear me now").

If people fly gliders as poorly as they drive cars speaking on a cell
phone, that would be a bad thing. We have enough going on in the cock
pit without an additional distraction.

Chip F.

The people you see erratically on the road talking on cell-phones
aren't the only people on the road talking. Think about it a bit.
You/we only notice the 'cell-phone drivers' who are incapable of
multi-tasking because ther ARE erratic. Try looking at each driver as
you pass them or are being passed. You will be surprised to find the
majority of cell-phone talker's driving is normal. I know this based
upon over 15 years of driving L.A. and other SoCal freeways 35,000+
miles per year (I am thankful I don't have to do THAT anymore!).

It is fashionable for us to deride all cell-phone users as unsafe based
upon our observations of a very visible minority but that is not an
accurate representation of the reality.

But about flying cell-phone use:
I could address the subject of whether it takes more attention time to
press a PDU button and read the resulting display vs. opening and
reading a map in your lap. But that is another subject isn't it?

What is the difference if I am sitting on top of San Jacinto mountain
using my cell-phone or if I am flying near SanJac doing the same? Or if
I am using my cell when on the 'Rim of the World' highway vs. flying
above it? I think we (gliders) have been swept into the total general
aviation category again.

It seems to me that other that banning it totally, cell-phone use in
gliders and balloons should be legal for emergency, flight planning,
and essential communications. Totally unenforcable of course, but the
current law isn't being enforced is it? Would they cite me and fine me
for 'emergency' use of a cell-phone in flight?

I have used my cell-phone in flight only a very few times. On one very
important occasion, when radio communications with my crew had failed,
I was able to avoid an airstrip with temporarily dangerous ground
conditions by using my cell to communicate with my crew. (No this
wasn't during a contest!)

Would this stop some idiot from flying around the local airport
chatting with his wife and flying unsafely? No, you can't keep idiots
like that out of the air anymore than we can keep them off the road.

Go wrote:


I have used my cell-phone in flight only a very few times. On one very
important occasion, when radio communications with my crew had failed,
I was able to avoid an airstrip with temporarily dangerous ground
conditions by using my cell to communicate with my crew. (No this
wasn't during a contest!)

Safety communication is allowed during a contest - no problem with that
part of using a cell phone.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

There is another point on the cell phone issue. There was recently a airplane
crash that destroyed the ELT, but the pilot had a cell phone he had left on.
It was a fatal, but the family was able to call the phone and get a signal.
Using the cell phone technology to triangulate, they found the plane within
hours in a remote area. Think of it as a back up ELT when you aren't able to
be found with the ELT. It certainly sounds like the technology is now able
to handle cell phones in the air, but the law hasn't caught up with the
technology. Digital vs. analog tech.

Hi,

The people you see erratically on the road talking on cell-phones
aren't the only people on the road talking. Think about it a bit.
You/we only notice the 'cell-phone drivers' who are incapable of
multi-tasking because ther ARE erratic. Try looking at each driver as
you pass them or are being passed. You will be surprised to find the
majority of cell-phone talker's driving is normal.

It may be as normal as most (moderatly) drunk driving. You can and usually
make do make it home even if you are a bit woozy.

We have had quite a bit of public discussion here in Germany and a lot
of research. The result of that research after being filtered through
the legislative jungle is that using a mobile phone without hands-free
equipment while driving is now forbidden. It is also widely accepted
that using a telephone _at_ _all_ while driving is a hazard, so if there
is an accident and it is discovered that one of the drivers was one the
phone he is very likely to be assigned at least part of the blame for it
by a judge even if he was using it hands-free.

It is also interesting to note that talking to a person that is physically
present seems to be not at all that demanding. So there is no pressure to
regulate normal conversation in cars :-).

I do not believe however that this research can easily be extended to
aircraft. Mainly because the allowed time to react is generally much
shorter on the road than in the air.

Ciao, MM
--
Marian Aldenhövel, Rosenhain 23, 53123 Bonn. +49 228 624013.
http://www.marian-aldenhoevel.de
"Ich hoffe Sie können mir helfen. Ein Freund hat mir einen tollen
Bildschirmschoner aufgespielt, aber jedesmal wenn ich die Maus bewege
ist er weg."

Marian Aldenhövel writes:

It is also interesting to note that talking to a person that is
physically present seems to be not at all that demanding. So there
is no pressure to regulate normal conversation in cars :-).

I do not believe however that this research can easily be extended
to aircraft. Mainly because the allowed time to react is generally
much shorter on the road than in the air.

The big difference it seems is that you are listening and concentrating
on ONE EAR. This distorts the visual field, and biases attention cues
toward the phone side. The visual distortion is AWAY from the phone,
so there is a large mismatch.

Using a speaker is far safer than a single ear phone.

--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.

The people you see erratically on the road talking on cell-phones
aren't the only people on the road talking. Think about it a bit.
You/we only notice the 'cell-phone drivers' who are incapable of
multi-tasking because ther ARE erratic. Try looking at each driver as

you pass them or are being passed. You will be surprised to find the
majority of cell-phone talker's driving is normal.


"It may be as normal as most (moderatly) drunk driving. You can and
usually
make do make it home even if you are a bit woozy."

I totally disagree with your statement that ANYONE driving while
talking on a cellphone is incapable of driving at a skill level above a
drunk driver. Absurd! You totally missed the point. Why not take a look
yourself when on the autobaun (sp?) rather than depending upon the
sensationalist media and special interest group propaganda. If the
situation there is similar to here you will see many, many drivers
performing capably even while talking on the phone. No, I don't sell
cell phones, but I do use them.

Hi,

If the situation there is similar to here you will see many, many drivers
performing capably even while talking on the phone.

Unfortunately you cannot see blood alcohol levels, so you cannot build
statistics by simple roadside observation.

Why not take a look yourself

Why not ask around who has made a trip after a few beers and survived.
Still this is no indication of the safety of it.

rather than depending upon the sensationalist media and special interest
group propaganda.

This is not propaganda but sound research. Plus I just cannot think at this
moment what powerful special interest group might want to ban cell phones.

autobaun

Autobahn.

Ciao, MM
--
Marian Aldenhövel, Rosenhain 23, 53123 Bonn. +49 228 624013.
http://www.marian-aldenhoevel.de
"Ich hoffe Sie können mir helfen. Ein Freund hat mir einen tollen
Bildschirmschoner aufgespielt, aber jedesmal wenn ich die Maus bewege
ist er weg."