Gary IN to CVG?

Why not? Who do they think they are?

I've flown light aircraft at peak hours (both VFR and IFR) into DFW,
LAX, IAH, etc, all of which are significantly busier than CVG and it
was a breeze.

Chip

P.S. everyone on airnav commenting about CVG seems to be flying a 172
or equiv and seems to think it was a great experience.

Chip Hermes wrote:

Why not? Who do they think they are?

I've flown light aircraft at peak hours (both VFR and IFR) into DFW,
LAX, IAH, etc, all of which are significantly busier than CVG and it
was a breeze.

I've flown a Warrior VFR to IAD also and it was a great experience. Yeah
I got vectored all over the place to keep me out of the way of bigger
and faster and IFR traffic and they worked me onto the runway during a
lull so I ended up flying a 13 mile downwind and final but I enjoyed the
tour of the area and the controllers never made me feel unwelcome.

I was based at LAX with a major airline for many years. In the early
days knowing the peaks and valleys I used to fly a light aircraft in
there when our company would let us park at the hangar. Then, traffic
increased and one day I was almost blown over in an Arrow by a
Continental 727 who blasted the power around the corner taking 25L for
takeoff even though the tower told him to be careful.

It's too easy to end up in a nasty situation like that at one of these
major airports.

Chip Hermes wrote:

Why not? Who do they think they are?

I've flown light aircraft at peak hours (both VFR and IFR) into DFW,
LAX, IAH, etc, all of which are significantly busier than CVG and it
was a breeze.

Chip

P.S. everyone on airnav commenting about CVG seems to be flying a 172
or equiv and seems to think it was a great experience.

Don't know *who* they think they are. And I've flown into other Class B
airports without the headaches too. But CVG really seems to go out of
its way to make things difficult sometimes for GA folks. I'm a CFI out
of LUK, and generally have no problem at all doing stuff in their
airspace...but ask to land? They *definitely* don't like it. Even at
slow times, they don't like small planes, especially doing practice
approaches. In fairness to them, tho, when it matters they are solid. I
had to miss off of the LUK ILS a couple of times earlier this year, and
the CVG guys did a fine job, basically offering me anything I wanted
either at LUK or CVG (I got into LUK on the next try); fine vectors no
problems at all.

But I've tried to go in there VFR a couple times, and do some practice
approaches with students, and I felt distinctly unwelcome. Can't blame
them...their job is first and foremost to get the big iron in and
out...unnecessary GA planes just make the mix more complex for them.

Cheers,

Cap

writes:
Don't know *who* they think they are. And I've flown into other Class B
airports without the headaches too. But CVG really seems to go out of
its way to make things difficult sometimes for GA folks. I'm a CFI out
of LUK, and generally have no problem at all doing stuff in their
airspace...but ask to land? They *definitely* don't like it. Even at
slow times, they don't like small planes, especially doing practice
approaches. In fairness to them, tho, when it matters they are solid. I
had to miss off of the LUK ILS a couple of times earlier this year, and
the CVG guys did a fine job, basically offering me anything I wanted
either at LUK or CVG (I got into LUK on the next try); fine vectors no
problems at all.

But I've tried to go in there VFR a couple times, and do some practice
approaches with students, and I felt distinctly unwelcome. Can't blame
them...their job is first and foremost to get the big iron in and
out...unnecessary GA planes just make the mix more complex for them.

I thought the FAA's job is to properly handle /all/ aircraft.

Everett M. Greene wrote:
I thought the FAA's job is to properly handle /all/ aircraft.

Well, presumably they will. Just with a bad attitude.

I think it's pretty funny how certain ATC locations have noticeably
negative personalities. But on second thought, it's not surprising.
It's a job, offices have 'cultures', and management quality varies.
Fortunately they have a pretty well defined set of operating procedures
to follow and plenty of controls so as long as they get it done, what's
the problem?

Charlotte used to be kind of funky in this pilot's book but that's long
gone. Maybe a little hub downsizing gets everyone's attention. Great
place now. Savannah usually managed to seem nasty for no apparent
reason. Probably an a--h--- manager or 2, who knows.

Maule Driver wrote:

Everett M. Greene wrote:
I thought the FAA's job is to properly handle /all/ aircraft.

Well, presumably they will. Just with a bad attitude.

I think it's pretty funny how certain ATC locations have noticeably
negative personalities. But on second thought, it's not surprising.
It's a job, offices have 'cultures', and management quality varies.
Fortunately they have a pretty well defined set of operating procedures
to follow and plenty of controls so as long as they get it done, what's
the problem?

Charlotte used to be kind of funky in this pilot's book but that's long
gone. Maybe a little hub downsizing gets everyone's attention. Great
place now.

When RDU was an AA hub, they didn't want local pilots coming in to do
practice stuff. After AA pulled out, RDU controllers came to local
flying club meetings and invited them come on over and practice as much
as they want.

The above happened before I started flying. My only experience with RDU
is in the post-AA era and they have been nothing but friendly and
helpful IMO.

RDU is close to my home airport and I go in there a lot. They are very
friendly. Of course one of my airpark neighbors is a controller there too.

I've attended various meetings where RDU issues have been covered and
here's how I understand it:

When an AA hub, RDU was on track for a Class B. More ATC pay, perhaps
prestige, and no need to solicit more traffic (or friends?). When the
hub collapsed, they slipped below the traffic threshold required for
Class B.

Apparently they've been very close over the years because Class B
hearings and planning sessions and such have been held repeatedly, but
they seem to keep coming up short of whatever the criteria is.

I remember an ATC rep in one of the meetings half joking about how they
welcome every operation in order to help them make the numbers.

So RDU remains a Class C and can't seem to make the big time from an ATC
perspective. But there are new facilities all over the place. New
parking, new ramps, new hangars,the FBOs seem successful and flush, big
iron GA floods the ramp, and *visiting* spam can flyers benefit from it
all. A GREAT place to fly into for whatever. Yaaay!

xyzzy wrote:
When RDU was an AA hub, they didn't want local pilots coming in to do
practice stuff. After AA pulled out, RDU controllers came to local
flying club meetings and invited them come on over and practice as much
as they want.

The above happened before I started flying. My only experience with RDU
is in the post-AA era and they have been nothing but friendly and
helpful IMO.

Apparently they've been very close over the years because Class B hearings and planning sessions and such have been held repeatedly, but they seem to keep coming up short of whatever the criteria is.

I remember an ATC rep in one of the meetings half joking about how they welcome every operation in order to help them make the numbers.

So RDU remains a Class C and can't seem to make the big time from an ATC perspective.

So, maybe us spam cans ought to avoid the airport, lest we get more
Bravo airspace.

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Maule Driver wrote:

So RDU remains a Class C and can't seem to make the big time from an ATC
perspective. But there are new facilities all over the place. New
parking, new ramps, new hangars,the FBOs seem successful and flush, big
iron GA floods the ramp, and *visiting* spam can flyers benefit from it
all. A GREAT place to fly into for whatever. Yaaay!

Yeah. I landed there just before the spamcan FBO closed one night. Both landing
lights were out, and I bought bulbs there just as they were shutting the
register up. When I landed, the dew point and temperature were about 4 degrees
apart, so I was interested in staying over.

My sister lives in the area, but she was on the road and nobody answered the
phone. A big hurricane (Hugo?) had blown through a few weeks before. The guy at
Piedmont called every hotel in Raleigh. They were all full, including the
$150/night places. He got off the phone just as I finished up with the landing
lights and just tossed me the keys to one of their pilot "emergency" rooms. No
charge.

OK, the gas is a bit pricey, but the people are great!

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.