While we're talking about Garmin GPS

Ron Natalie wrote:

For IFR, you should use the reporting points called out on the charts (or
implied by the rules).

For IFR, you've a flight plan programmed, right? That means you've your
distance to your next waypoint on your map (unless you swap out that
number; the Garmin leaves room for only four values as I recall).

You can have your desired track to the next waypoint too, but you know that
anyway as you're keeping that number - or something like that number
balanced by wind - in your HI.

Why isn't that enough for a position report if you're between waypoints?
That is, if you're 20 miles from the SAX VOR flying a course of 080, you're
20 miles out on the SAX R260.

Actually...I miss some things from the planes I used to rent. For one, the
NAV/COMs had the ability to display the TO/FROM bearing right on the
NAV/COM panel. I liked that. A lot. For intercept purposes, I preferred
that to the CDI. It made knowing one's location relative a VOR simpler; no
CDI twisting and hunting.

More, the MFD installed with the KLN GPS had a little data field (in the
lower left, maybe) which always had the "best" (for some definition)
"location report". All you had to do was read that to ATC.

- Andrew

wrote in message
...

It provides an electronic "how goes it" log and ensures you fly legs
rather than direct-to.


As does the more traditional nav gear. So nothing is gained by having the
route as a flight plan loaded into the Garmin.

For IFR, you've a flight plan programmed, right? That means you've your
distance to your next waypoint on your map (unless you swap out that number;
the Garmin leaves room for only four values as I recall).

You can have your desired track to the next waypoint too, but you know that
anyway as you're keeping that number - or something like that number balanced
by wind - in your HI.

Why isn't that enough for a position report if you're between waypoints? That
is, if you're 20 miles from the SAX VOR flying a course of 080, you're 20 miles
out on the SAX R260.

Actually...I miss some things from the planes I used to rent. For one, the
NAV/COMs had the ability to display the TO/FROM bearing right on the NAV/COM
panel. I liked that. A lot. For intercept purposes, I preferred that to the
CDI. It made knowing one's location relative a VOR simpler; no CDI twisting
and hunting.

More, the MFD installed with the KLN GPS had a little data field (in the lower
left, maybe) which always had the "best" (for some definition) "location
report". All you had to do was read that to ATC.

- Andrew


Andrew:
Product is the KMD150, 550, and 850 MFD. Data field was in the lower right
corner, and had to be configured for the "NRST VOR" rather than the "NRST
WAYPOINT". Also keep in mind that the distance would be expressed in NM, but
the direction would be expressed as cardinal, i.e. NNW 15.7 nm DCA vortac. Plus
it would not pull up the nearest TACAN even if that was the closest navaid.

It would have been more convenient if Honeywell would allow you to specify an
easier format such as DCA 338 15.7 nm. Not all controllers can work with a
"north by northwest". They confuse it with some Cary Grant & Eve Marie Saint
movie that Alfred Hitchcock made.


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles’ wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-345-4276 home/fax

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:


wrote in message
...

It provides an electronic "how goes it" log and ensures you fly legs
rather than direct-to.


As does the more traditional nav gear. So nothing is gained by having the
route as a flight plan loaded into the Garmin.

When you're *at* a waypoint, it shouldn't make a difference by which means
you've identified the waypoint. You're there. That's what you report.

As I understand this conversation, it's when you're not at a way point that
this discussion rears its head.

However, that does beg the question: on an IFR flight, when would you report
your position while not at a waypoint? I suppose ATC might ask for some
unknown reason (RADAR failure, and shifting into non-RADAR mode, perhaps?),
but I've never experienced that myself.

- Andrew

paul k. sanchez wrote:

It would have been more convenient if Honeywell would allow you to specify
an easier format such as DCA 338 15.7 nm. Not all controllers can work
with a "north by northwest". They confuse it with some Cary Grant & Eve
Marie Saint movie that Alfred Hitchcock made.

I never had a problem using that style of reporting. I'd guess it was
enough information that they knew where to look on their RADARs for my
squawk.

I do wonder, though, why this style was chosen instead of a bearing. As a
programmer, I can see that converting the bearing to a verbal and
approximate description is a little extra work. As someone familiar with
navigation, I see it represents a loss of detail.

So...why do it?

Anyway, it's been months since I've used those airplanes. I'm now in a club
which flys with Garmins, so - even though I do miss aspects of those
rentals - what those rentals did is not too important to me anymore.

- Andrew

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
gonline.com...

When you're *at* a waypoint, it shouldn't make a difference by which means
you've identified the waypoint. You're there. That's what you report.

As I understand this conversation, it's when you're not at a way point
that
this discussion rears its head.

However, that does beg the question: on an IFR flight, when would you
report
your position while not at a waypoint? I suppose ATC might ask for some
unknown reason (RADAR failure, and shifting into non-RADAR mode,
perhaps?),
but I've never experienced that myself.


We're on an airway in a nonradar environment. The GPS provides no more
information than the more traditional nav gear.

There is a page in the "Nav" set that will do what you want. It is the 4th page
or "Position" page. It can be set to give you your position from the nearest
apt, VOR, NDB or waypoint. I use it set to give me a position from the nearest
VOR. It will show radial and distance. I mostly fly in areas that do not
require position reports, but I use the feature when contacting Fligh****ch and
giving my position for in flight weather updates.

Alan
PP-SEL-IA
Bonanza N5081E

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

We're on an airway in a nonradar environment. The GPS provides no more
information than the more traditional nav gear.

We are? Looks around I don't think so.

The OP didn't state this, so I'm not sure from where you picked it up.
Looking at the original posting, there was no context provided as to why a
position report was being given. He or she did mention "IFR proficiency
flight", but perhaps they were flying VFR with the left-seater under the
hood.

If one were on an IFR flight plan, RADAR or not, I cannot see the need
expressed by the original poster. Reports are at waypoints, and - however
one knows this - one is *at* the waypoint. What to report is therefore
pretty obvious.

You do know that, right?

So, I'm guessing that he or she was referring to VFR. But I don't pretend
to be omniscient, so I'll have to leave it at "I don't know". Care to try
it yourself?

- Andrew

Could be in climb out in a non radar environment upon initial call up to
ATC. We have to do it all the time when we open our flight plan with FSS on
the ground, take off from STE and then call ATC. Because radar doesn't pick
us up until about 3500MSL, they usually give us a squawk code and ask for a
position report. At that time we are usually neither on an airway or on an
airway and may be filled Direct /G. Granted, the original post did not
specify any of these conditions, it's just one instance that I've
experienced several times and the NRST page makes it handy.
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply


"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

We're on an airway in a nonradar environment. The GPS provides no more
information than the more traditional nav gear.

We are? Looks around I don't think so.

The OP didn't state this, so I'm not sure from where you picked it up.
Looking at the original posting, there was no context provided as to why a
position report was being given. He or she did mention "IFR proficiency
flight", but perhaps they were flying VFR with the left-seater under the
hood.

If one were on an IFR flight plan, RADAR or not, I cannot see the need
expressed by the original poster. Reports are at waypoints, and - however
one knows this - one is *at* the waypoint. What to report is therefore
pretty obvious.

You do know that, right?

So, I'm guessing that he or she was referring to VFR. But I don't pretend
to be omniscient, so I'll have to leave it at "I don't know". Care to try
it yourself?

- Andrew

well, I took it he was not on an IFR flight plan at the time of needing to
give his position, that being said, he could launch then pick up the clearence
in the air then would need to be able to give his position.

Jeff

Andrew Gideon wrote:


If one were on an IFR flight plan, RADAR or not, I cannot see the need
expressed by the original poster. Reports are at waypoints, and - however
one knows this - one is *at* the waypoint. What to report is therefore
pretty obvious.

You do know that, right?

So, I'm guessing that he or she was referring to VFR. But I don't pretend
to be omniscient, so I'll have to leave it at "I don't know". Care to try
it yourself?

- Andrew