Picking a Star/DP

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 17:14:12 -0500, Nick Kliewer
wrote:

Bill wrote:

I got my instrument rating at an accelerated school in California.
Overall, I think my instruction went well, and I was very happy with
the results. I passed my checkride in a Piper Lance, and had no
troubles.

There was one part though that never quite made sense to me. My
instructor told me to use a Star or DP for an airport that wasn't the
airport I was flying to, and I genuinely had no idea how she was
selecting which one to use. At the time, I just fudged my way through
that, since my brain was approaching maximum capacity anyway.

Now I'm wanting to start filing and flying out of TKI in the DFW area,
and I have no idea how to determine which procedure I should file, nor
do I even see how the transition will occur from the procedure that is
routing to or from DFW over to a landing at TKI or takeoff from TKI.

Strange that I have this one gap in my training, but it's getting in
my way now. Can any of you clear this up or recommend a good book or
video that makes this process clear? And I don't just want to
understand the process here at TKI I need to know how to apply this
anywhere.

Thanks!
Bill
www.adventurepilot.com

I fly out of TKI and there's nothing special to flying the DPs or STARs there.
The trick is to find the DPs that are not for jets and that are heading in the
direction that you want.

The DPs are airport specific. The STAR is used just to get you into the
"Terminal Area" which encompasses many airports. Again, pick the one that is
for props and coming generally from the direction you'll be coming from.

As someone else pointed out, DPs and STARs are like a box of chocolates.

I appreciate your response, and everyone else who has responded as
well. I guess my confusion comes in thinking of the DP like I would
an approach plate, meaning that an approach plate tells me everything
I need in order to navigate, even in the event of complete radio loss.

So, to try to clear this up, can I go into a more specific example?

I'm looking at the Dallas Eight Departure. For argument's sake, let's
assume that my route will take me to the Little Rock VOR. What I
don't understand is how I get from TKI (shown on the DALL8.TTT
departure) to the Little Rock Transition.

Once again, I'm probably making this difficult because I'm thinking in
terms of an approach plate, but other than just seeing that the NOBLY
intersection is the closest to TKI on that transition, what is the
method by which I would decide how to get to that point?

Additionally, what would me clearance look like?

I know I'm really revealing my ignorance here, but I don't like not
knowing how this really should work. I might be able to fudge my way
through it again, but that's not as enjoyable as really knowing the
system.

Thanks,

Bill
www.adventurepilot.com

"Bill" wrote in message ...

So, to try to clear this up, can I go into a more specific example?

I'm looking at the Dallas Eight Departure. For argument's sake, let's
assume that my route will take me to the Little Rock VOR. What I
don't understand is how I get from TKI (shown on the DALL8.TTT
departure) to the Little Rock Transition.

Once again, I'm probably making this difficult because I'm thinking in
terms of an approach plate, but other than just seeing that the NOBLY
intersection is the closest to TKI on that transition, what is the
method by which I would decide how to get to that point?


First you have to start with the notes. (I only
Dallas 8: "For jets requesting FL180 and above".
Garland 2: "For jets requesting FL 170 and below"
Hubbard 5: "For props requesting FL 230 and below"

So you'll probably be getting Hubbard 5. (This was the type of information that was very nicely summarized and
graphically depicted on that website I mentioned but is now out of service).

When you're going to fly it, you start at the TOP of the textual description: "When entering controlled
airspace, fly assigned heading and altitude to appropriate route". The heading and altitude will be given to
you by the time you are released.

Departure may give you vectors and/or clear you direct NOBLY or ECKEY, etc.

Additionally, what would me clearance look like?

Lets say you filed KTKI-MONTE-V124-BEGAN-KLIT. (I got this straight from the duats auto-routing).

Clearance Delivery: "N123 cleared to Little Rock via Hubbard 5, Paris Transition, then as filed, climb and
maintain 3000 expect 5000 after 10 minutes, Dep Freq x.xxx, squawk yyyy". (I'm not a controller but thats the
jist of it). Note this overrides your MONTE flight plan, but once to PRX VOR you're "as filed".

Tower: "N123 fly runway heading cleared for takeoff runway 17"
Tower: "N123 contact departure"

Departu "N123 radar contact turn left 100 intercept Maverick 064 , climb and maintain 9000". Or if you're
/G maybe they will say "N123 radar contact cleared direct ECKEY etc"


I know I'm really revealing my ignorance here, but I don't like not
knowing how this really should work. I might be able to fudge my way
through it again, but that's not as enjoyable as really knowing the
system.


Like everything else, with practice it gets a lot easier!

(P.S. There seems to be a charting error on the NACO Dallas 8. The airport is depicted quite south of NOBLY.
As an exercise you might want to locate the appropriate e-mail address and notify NACO of the error-- I have
found them very responsive to such!)

--
Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 14:19:12 GMT, "John Clonts"
wrote:


"Bill" wrote in message ...

So, to try to clear this up, can I go into a more specific example?

I'm looking at the Dallas Eight Departure. For argument's sake, let's
assume that my route will take me to the Little Rock VOR. What I
don't understand is how I get from TKI (shown on the DALL8.TTT
departure) to the Little Rock Transition.

Once again, I'm probably making this difficult because I'm thinking in
terms of an approach plate, but other than just seeing that the NOBLY
intersection is the closest to TKI on that transition, what is the
method by which I would decide how to get to that point?


First you have to start with the notes. (I only
Dallas 8: "For jets requesting FL180 and above".
Garland 2: "For jets requesting FL 170 and below"
Hubbard 5: "For props requesting FL 230 and below"

So you'll probably be getting Hubbard 5. (This was the type of information that was very nicely summarized and
graphically depicted on that website I mentioned but is now out of service).

When you're going to fly it, you start at the TOP of the textual description: "When entering controlled
airspace, fly assigned heading and altitude to appropriate route". The heading and altitude will be given to
you by the time you are released.

Departure may give you vectors and/or clear you direct NOBLY or ECKEY, etc.

Additionally, what would me clearance look like?

Lets say you filed KTKI-MONTE-V124-BEGAN-KLIT. (I got this straight from the duats auto-routing).

Clearance Delivery: "N123 cleared to Little Rock via Hubbard 5, Paris Transition, then as filed, climb and
maintain 3000 expect 5000 after 10 minutes, Dep Freq x.xxx, squawk yyyy". (I'm not a controller but thats the
jist of it). Note this overrides your MONTE flight plan, but once to PRX VOR you're "as filed".

Tower: "N123 fly runway heading cleared for takeoff runway 17"
Tower: "N123 contact departure"

Departu "N123 radar contact turn left 100 intercept Maverick 064 , climb and maintain 9000". Or if you're
/G maybe they will say "N123 radar contact cleared direct ECKEY etc"


I know I'm really revealing my ignorance here, but I don't like not
knowing how this really should work. I might be able to fudge my way
through it again, but that's not as enjoyable as really knowing the
system.


Like everything else, with practice it gets a lot easier!

(P.S. There seems to be a charting error on the NACO Dallas 8. The airport is depicted quite south of NOBLY.
As an exercise you might want to locate the appropriate e-mail address and notify NACO of the error-- I have
found them very responsive to such!)

Goodness, where do I mail my payment!

This is the kind of info that I never got during training. Sure, I
can shoot an approach to minimums no problem, but this was the type of
thing that made me shy from filing.

I appreciate you taking the time to walk me through this a bit. I
suppose I'll spend some time listening to ATC at TKI on a rainy, IMC
day while I clean out the inside of the plane. Sounds like that could
be educational as well.

Thanks again. I'll be back with more questions, and hope to answer a
few along the way as well.

Bill
www.adventurepilot.com