IFR/Flight Following -- ATC Preferences?

Judah wrote:

I never read anywhere that he lost control of his aircraft. In fact, all
reports indicated quite the opposite - that he maintained a controlled
flight directly into the water. If that's the case, either he was suicidal
or he was disoriented.

The NTSB report reads in part:

"The airplane's rate of descent eventually exceeded 4,700 fpm"

I wouldn't call that maintaining "controlled flight."

source:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...12X19354&key=1


--
Peter
























----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"Peter R." wrote in
:

Judah wrote:

I never read anywhere that he lost control of his aircraft. In fact,
all reports indicated quite the opposite - that he maintained a
controlled flight directly into the water. If that's the case,
either
he was suicidal or he was disoriented.

The NTSB report reads in part:

"The airplane's rate of descent eventually exceeded 4,700 fpm"

I wouldn't call that maintaining "controlled flight."

source:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...12X19354&key=1



He was absolutely controlling the aircraft. The controls did not fail,
nor did he release the controls - if anything, creating a 4,700 fpm
descent requires either significant pressure or considerable trim
adjustment.

He nosed the plane down directly into the water.

He thought he was maintaining level flight. He ignored his training and
his instruments in an effort to make his seat feel right. While it's
not clear exactly what his mental state was at the time of the
accident, it is perfectly plausable to believe that his mental state
might have been improved if he were in communication with an ATC
facility, FSS or other aviation-related entity that would have brought
his attention back to his piloting instead of on whatever else his mind
was on.

Judah wrote:

He was absolutely controlling the aircraft. The controls did not fail,
nor did he release the controls - if anything, creating a 4,700 fpm
descent requires either significant pressure or considerable trim
adjustment.

Sorry, I disagree.

--
Peter
























----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 00:26:29 GMT, Judah wrote:

"Peter R." wrote in
:

Judah wrote:

I never read anywhere that he lost control of his aircraft. In fact,
all reports indicated quite the opposite - that he maintained a
controlled flight directly into the water. If that's the case,
either
he was suicidal or he was disoriented.

The NTSB report reads in part:

"The airplane's rate of descent eventually exceeded 4,700 fpm"

I wouldn't call that maintaining "controlled flight."

source:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...12X19354&key=1



He was absolutely controlling the aircraft. The controls did not fail,
nor did he release the controls - if anything, creating a 4,700 fpm
descent requires either significant pressure or considerable trim
adjustment.

He nosed the plane down directly into the water.

Doubtful. More likely he was in a "grave yard spiral". Here it's
semantics. Yah, he sorta, was kinda, in control, but really wasn't as
exceeding Vne is considered out of control if you don't bring it back.

Considering the aircraft he was probably beyond the point of being
able to bring it back to level flight without doing severe structural
damage.


He thought he was maintaining level flight. He ignored his training and
his instruments in an effort to make his seat feel right. While it's
not clear exactly what his mental state was at the time of the
accident, it is perfectly plausable to believe that his mental state
might have been improved if he were in communication with an ATC
facility, FSS or other aviation-related entity that would have brought
his attention back to his piloting instead of on whatever else his mind
was on.

Look at the time from the start of the deviation until impact. It's
typical of some one turning off an autopilot, looking out the window
to find the ground looking back to discover they've started a spiral,
correcting, doing the same thing again in the other direction, and not
being able to ignore what their body was telling them and believe the
instruments. He had nearly 100 hours hood time. With that many hours
it's something he should have recognized immediately.

It's highly unlikely any controller would have recognized what was
happening until he was in the spiral and by then it was probably too
late. Had he been IFR it would have set off the alarms with the first
100 foot deviation.

However other than we can be fairly certain he took the grave yard
spiral to the water, any thing beyond that is pure and useless
speculation.

When you get into a situation like that only the pilot can save
himself and passengers. When in way over his head the pooch has
already been screwed.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Roger" wrote in message
...

He had nearly 100 hours hood time.


What is your source for that? The NTSB report says, "Within 100 days before
the accident, the pilot had completed about 50 percent of a formal
instrument training course." I see nothing about his total instrument time.



Had he been IFR it would have set off the alarms with the first
100 foot deviation.


There is no alarm for an altitude deviation and being off an assigned
altitude by just 100 feet isn't considered a deviation.

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..

He was absolutely controlling the aircraft. The controls did not fail,
nor did he release the controls - if anything, creating a 4,700 fpm
descent requires either significant pressure or considerable trim
adjustment.

He nosed the plane down directly into the water.


You're saying it was a murder-suicide? What is your evidence of that?



He thought he was maintaining level flight. He ignored his training and
his instruments in an effort to make his seat feel right. While it's
not clear exactly what his mental state was at the time of the
accident, it is perfectly plausable to believe that his mental state
might have been improved if he were in communication with an ATC
facility, FSS or other aviation-related entity that would have brought
his attention back to his piloting instead of on whatever else his mind
was on.


Now you're saying he was out of control. Make up your mind.