Reading the whiskey compass

If your answer was a timed turn, then you are guilty of
suiting the procedure to the situation, which doesn't pay off too well in an
emergency.


Isn't that the whole point - to suit the procedure to the situation?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Everybody to their own taste, as the lady said when she kissed the cow. In a
real emergency, pilots should not have to sort through a laundry list of
possible procedures to find the one that fits...they should learn a
procedure that works in all situations and train for that. In the instant
case, absent failure of the turn coordinator, timed turns always work.

Bob Gardner

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

If your answer was a timed turn, then you are guilty of
suiting the procedure to the situation, which doesn't pay off too well in
an
emergency.


Isn't that the whole point - to suit the procedure to the situation?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

It seems to me that timed turns are easier to do, but require more
iterations for accurate results. Wet Compass turns are easier to get more
accurate results, and involve an instrument that one would be using
anyway (for heading performance absent a DG) but require slightly more
attention and concentration.

It also seems to me that there is a situation where timed turns
absolutely do not work - electrical failure. No TC, and possibly no
clock. So the timed turn procedure does not work in all situations as you
so describe.

So, you see, sometimes you MUST manage the situation. And there clearly
is a valid reason to train both techniques. Redundancy is a popular word
among pilots, and I can't imagine anyone being admonished for having it
in a plane - even when it comes to technique and training...



"Bob Gardner" wrote in
news:lmq%b.418281$na.808957@attbi_s04:

Everybody to their own taste, as the lady said when she kissed the cow.
In a real emergency, pilots should not have to sort through a laundry
list of possible procedures to find the one that fits...they should
learn a procedure that works in all situations and train for that. In
the instant case, absent failure of the turn coordinator, timed turns
always work.

Bob Gardner

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

If your answer was a timed turn, then you are guilty of suiting the
procedure to the situation, which doesn't pay off too well in an
emergency.

Isn't that the whole point - to suit the procedure to the situation?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

The FARs and AIM do not address multiple failures such as you posit...vacuum
pump failure plus electrical failure. No procedure can be written for a Part
91 piston pilot that will always work under those conditions, and no
examiner would expect an applicant to have a solution at hand.

In an emergency (and loss of vacuum instruments IS an emergency), accuracy
is secondary...aircraft control is primary. Who cares if you are five
degrees off of the heading the controller gave you...after you have said the
E word, anything goes.

I remember reading about a pilot and his daughter plunging to earth solely
because they had lost their vacuum instruments and couldn't fly without them
(and there is the Carnahan case of recent memory).

Don't worry about dead-on accuracy, bank as little as possible (in your
scenario you have no bank instruments, of course), and pray a lot.

Bob Gardner

"Judah" wrote in message
...
It seems to me that timed turns are easier to do, but require more
iterations for accurate results. Wet Compass turns are easier to get more
accurate results, and involve an instrument that one would be using
anyway (for heading performance absent a DG) but require slightly more
attention and concentration.

It also seems to me that there is a situation where timed turns
absolutely do not work - electrical failure. No TC, and possibly no
clock. So the timed turn procedure does not work in all situations as you
so describe.

So, you see, sometimes you MUST manage the situation. And there clearly
is a valid reason to train both techniques. Redundancy is a popular word
among pilots, and I can't imagine anyone being admonished for having it
in a plane - even when it comes to technique and training...



"Bob Gardner" wrote in
news:lmq%b.418281$na.808957@attbi_s04:

Everybody to their own taste, as the lady said when she kissed the cow.
In a real emergency, pilots should not have to sort through a laundry
list of possible procedures to find the one that fits...they should
learn a procedure that works in all situations and train for that. In
the instant case, absent failure of the turn coordinator, timed turns
always work.

Bob Gardner

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

If your answer was a timed turn, then you are guilty of suiting the
procedure to the situation, which doesn't pay off too well in an
emergency.

Isn't that the whole point - to suit the procedure to the situation?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

I don't get it. You'd use the same procedure for a fire in the cockpit as you
would for a gear malfunction? There are no procedures that work "in all
situations", even limiting ourselves to PP work. (which P of the P?) In any
case, your saying "...timed turns always work" goes against what I was
complaining about (using a timed turn is suiting the procedure...)

What am I missing?

(and yes, in this case I'm top-posting.)

Jose

=========

Everybody to their own taste, as the lady said when she kissed the cow. In a
real emergency, pilots should not have to sort through a laundry list of
possible procedures to find the one that fits...they should learn a
procedure that works in all situations and train for that. In the instant
case, absent failure of the turn coordinator, timed turns always work.

Bob Gardner

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

If your answer was a timed turn, then you are guilty of
suiting the procedure to the situation, which doesn't pay off too well in
an
emergency.


Isn't that the whole point - to suit the procedure to the situation?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)