Busted IFR Checkride

Not a biggie. Life goes on. Sorry that it happened, but considering that you
will spend an infinitesimal amount of time actually holding in real life
(not counting doing it to stay current), you got the important stuff behind
you.

Bob Gardner

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that... At first I was so damn fustrated
that I told the DE that I just want to head back to the airport... Then
I thought to myself "what are you going to do there pout?" :-) I then
decided to go ahead with the rest of the ride and get it out of the way.
I did OK... not great but passable... This DE made it pretty easy on
me... He was telling me about his IFR checkride and him busting on his
first attempt too... He busted on the holding pattern too so I didn't
feel that bad.. He now has 14,000+ hours and doesn't worry about his
busted IFR checkride so I figured why should I... Now I just need to go
back up with my instructor once, do the freakn' holding pattern... Go
back up with the DE... do the freakn' holding pattern and be done...
More to follow...

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA Argggg...

Thanks Bob... I figured the same thing... I hear that most people have
never been asked to hold anywhere... how about you? JK

Bob Gardner wrote:

Not a biggie. Life goes on. Sorry that it happened, but considering that you
will spend an infinitesimal amount of time actually holding in real life
(not counting doing it to stay current), you got the important stuff behind
you.

Bob Gardner

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
.. .


Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that... At first I was so damn fustrated
that I told the DE that I just want to head back to the airport... Then
I thought to myself "what are you going to do there pout?" :-) I then
decided to go ahead with the rest of the ride and get it out of the way.
I did OK... not great but passable... This DE made it pretty easy on
me... He was telling me about his IFR checkride and him busting on his
first attempt too... He busted on the holding pattern too so I didn't
feel that bad.. He now has 14,000+ hours and doesn't worry about his
busted IFR checkride so I figured why should I... Now I just need to go
back up with my instructor once, do the freakn' holding pattern... Go
back up with the DE... do the freakn' holding pattern and be done...
More to follow...

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA Argggg...

Two times stick in my memory: Holding at the Kallispell, MT VORTAC one night on the way into Helena, and holding on the Battleground, WA VORTAC on the way into Portland International. They wouldn't be memorable if it the weather had been nice.

Bob Gardner
"Jon Kraus" wrote in message ...
Thanks Bob... I figured the same thing... I hear that most people have never been asked to hold anywhere... how about you? JK

Bob Gardner wrote:

Not a biggie. Life goes on. Sorry that it happened, but considering that you
will spend an infinitesimal amount of time actually holding in real life
(not counting doing it to stay current), you got the important stuff behind
you.

Bob Gardner

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...

Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that... At first I was so damn fustrated
that I told the DE that I just want to head back to the airport... Then
I thought to myself "what are you going to do there pout?" :-) I then
decided to go ahead with the rest of the ride and get it out of the way.
I did OK... not great but passable... This DE made it pretty easy on
me... He was telling me about his IFR checkride and him busting on his
first attempt too... He busted on the holding pattern too so I didn't
feel that bad.. He now has 14,000+ hours and doesn't worry about his
busted IFR checkride so I figured why should I... Now I just need to go
back up with my instructor once, do the freakn' holding pattern... Go
back up with the DE... do the freakn' holding pattern and be done...
More to follow...

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA Argggg...

hanks Bob... I figured the same thing... I hear that most people have
never been asked to hold anywhere... how about you

I only have my IFR ticket for two years and had to hold twice.
Hank

Now that you got the "bust" over with, you can relax, take your review ride with
your instructor, take the recheck ride with the DE, and then start learning how
to fly IFR (remember -- a ticket is merely a "license to learn")! Most pilots
will bust a ride some time in their lifetime; you just got yours out of the way
early!

While holding may be infrequent, it usually comes up at an inopportune time when
it does come up. So, it's worth keeping up your skills. I've recently had to
do a "360 for spacing" on approach into HKG, and have had to hold a couple times
at Point Reyes on arrival into SFO (B747). Also, holding is a good technique
when you're not quite ready to start an approach IMC; just ask for a turn or 2,
and get yourself prepared after established.

Once you get more comfortable flying IFR and IMC, the holding will become much
easier. Take advantage of every opportunity to practice!

"Jon Kraus" wrote...
Thanks Bob... I figured the same thing... I hear that most people have
never been asked to hold anywhere... how about you? JK

Bob Gardner wrote:

Not a biggie. Life goes on. Sorry that it happened, but considering that you
will spend an infinitesimal amount of time actually holding in real life
(not counting doing it to stay current), you got the important stuff behind
you.


"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
. ..

Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that... At first I was so damn fustrated
that I told the DE that I just want to head back to the airport...

John R Weiss wrote:

While holding may be infrequent, it usually comes up at an inopportune time when
it does come up. So, it's worth keeping up your skills. I've recently had to
do a "360 for spacing" on approach into HKG, and have had to hold a couple times
at Point Reyes on arrival into SFO (B747). Also, holding is a good technique
when you're not quite ready to start an approach IMC; just ask for a turn or 2,
and get yourself prepared after established.

Here's another nice holding trick that my IFR instructor taught me. If you
are concerned about (unforecast) ice in a cloud layer that you have to climb
through, or if you have to fly over water directly after takeoff, ask for a
climbing hold at a navaid close to the airport (it's called a "shuttle
climb" in Canada, but I don't think the U.S. has a term for it) until you
either get above the clouds or get to a safe gliding altitude for flying
over the water.

If you do start picking up ice during the climb, you'll be either lined up
for an approach (if you're holding over the IAF) or right over the airport.

I think that this is a normal IFR departure procedure for some airports in
mountain country, but I have no mountain flying experience.

To the original poster, I am very sorry to hear that you busted the first
part of the checkride, but you should be proud of yourself for going on and
finishing (and passing everything else). You've proven to yourself that if
something goes wrong in a real-life flight some day, you won't get
distracted and fall to pieces, but will keep focussed and finish your flight
safely: that might be a lifesaver.


All the best,


David

Jon Kraus wrote in message ...
Thanks Bob... I figured the same thing... I hear that most people have
never been asked to hold anywhere... how about you? JK

On my first flight as PIC under IFR, I was #3 for the approach into
a non-towered airport in Center airspace. No radio comms with Center
once you start to descend inbound from the FAF, have to cancel on the
ground through FSS. Layer from about 1000 AGL to 4000 AGL.

Think I had to hold? Oh, yes, and let's not get sloppy either,
planes over and under me.

I think it all depends upon where you fly. If you're flying all the
time into airports where radar conditions permit vectors to final,
seems a lot of controllers just send you all over the sky instead
of issuing holds (though I think you'll still get 'em if the weather
is truly bad).

OTOH, if you're flying a lot where vectors to final aren't an option
but the airport sees a fair bit of traffic, holding shouldn't come
as a shock any time the wx makes an IAP necessary. I'll be surprised
if I go through the year without another hold.

And frankly, I'd rather just hold than get vectored all over creation,
told to circle a couple times, that kind of thing. If I hold with an
EFC time and I lose comm, I know where I am, what I'm supposed to
do, and when I'm supposed to do it.

Cheers,
Sydney

I never understood why holding patterns are so damn important. I have
received a holding clearance only once in my life. Why are they required
for the recency experience and the checkride? Also, why are the entry
procedures so important? Is there any example where an incorrect entry
procedure would have caused an accident?







"Bob Gardner" wrote in
news:llYhc.4783$YP5.441855@attbi_s02:

Not a biggie. Life goes on. Sorry that it happened, but considering
that you will spend an infinitesimal amount of time actually holding
in real life (not counting doing it to stay current), you got the
important stuff behind you.

Bob Gardner

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that... At first I was so damn
fustrated that I told the DE that I just want to head back to the
airport... Then I thought to myself "what are you going to do there
pout?" :-) I then decided to go ahead with the rest of the ride
and get it out of the way. I did OK... not great but passable...
This DE made it pretty easy on me... He was telling me about his IFR
checkride and him busting on his first attempt too... He busted on
the holding pattern too so I didn't feel that bad.. He now has
14,000+ hours and doesn't worry about his busted IFR checkride so I
figured why should I... Now I just need to go back up with my
instructor once, do the freakn' holding pattern... Go back up with
the DE... do the freakn' holding pattern and be done... More to
follow...

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA Argggg...

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

Also, why are the entry
procedures so important? Is there any example where an incorrect entry
procedure would have caused an accident?

My guess on this question is....

You don't bump into someone in the soup doing a proper entry.

The proper entry makes it so that ATC can anticipate / predict your next
move, knowing how the entry to the hold from your direction of travel.

Just like working in the pattern at an uncontrolled airport, you would
want people to enter the pattern appropriately to keep things neat and
orderly.

Don't want some one doing a right hand pattern at a left hand pattern
airport....

Allen

A Lieberman wrote in
:

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

Also, why are the entry
procedures so important? Is there any example where an incorrect
entry procedure would have caused an accident?

My guess on this question is....

You don't bump into someone in the soup doing a proper entry.

The proper entry makes it so that ATC can anticipate / predict your
next move, knowing how the entry to the hold from your direction of
travel.

Just like working in the pattern at an uncontrolled airport, you would
want people to enter the pattern appropriately to keep things neat and
orderly.

Don't want some one doing a right hand pattern at a left hand pattern
airport....

Allen


I can understand that a recommended entry will keep things neat and
tidy. But that can't be the reason for requiring holds for recency
experience. It's got to be something more important than that. A hold
ranks way up there with an instrument approach when it comes to
currency.

A VFR traffic pattern is not a fair comparison because the traffic
pattern could packed full of airplanes bumper to bumper. That can't be
the case under IFR. I am not sure what kind of separation is used by ATC
when in a hold. It can't be that close because the turn radius depends
on the aircraft speed. During the outbound turn from the holding fix, a
Citation will go past the holding fix much farther than a 172.