STAR to nearby airport

EDR wrote:
Take a look at KCVG (Greater Cincinnati International).

I don't understand. What do you mean "take a look at..."? Is there some document
you want me to see?

This is CBAS
and all the airports with instrument approaches within the Mode C veil
use the SIDs and STARs.

Where does it say that? In the document you want me to take a look at?

I always file "NO SIDS OR STARS" in the Remarks.

Why do you do that?

Not intentionally dense, I'm just not getting your meaning, somehow.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

In article , Dave Butler
wrote:

EDR wrote:
Take a look at KCVG (Greater Cincinnati International).

I don't understand. What do you mean "take a look at..."? Is there some
document
you want me to see?

This is CBAS
and all the airports with instrument approaches within the Mode C veil
use the SIDs and STARs.

Where does it say that? In the document you want me to take a look at?

NOTAMs and Approach Plates

I always file "NO SIDS OR STARS" in the Remarks.

Why do you do that?
Not intentionally dense, I'm just not getting your meaning, somehow.

I am not a jet jockey. I fly a slow spam can. If I am given a SID or
STAR I am going to be flying miles out of my way, well below traffic
that the procedures are designed to separate.

I always file "NO SIDS OR STARS" in the Remarks.

Don't they just give you the SID or STAR anyway, just spell it out for you?
They want to vector you far away, they vector you far away./

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Teacherjh wrote:

I always file "NO SIDS OR STARS" in the Remarks.

Don't they just give you the SID or STAR anyway, just spell it out for you?
They want to vector you far away, they vector you far away./

You do not have to accept the clearance.

In article , jsmith wrote:

Teacherjh wrote:

I always file "NO SIDS OR STARS" in the Remarks.

Don't they just give you the SID or STAR anyway, just spell it out for you?
They want to vector you far away, they vector you far away./

You do not have to accept the clearance.

It's true that you don't have to accept a clearance, but that doesn't
give you carte blanche to do whatever you want. You should decline a
clearance if you're unable to comply due to operational limitations
(can't climb that high, don't have enough fuel, don't have the required
navigational equipment, etc) or there's a safety issue (oxygen, ice,
over-water, etc). You can keep saying "unable" and the controller will
keep trying to come up with alternatives, but eventually you may be
called upon to defend your actions, and "because I didn't want to take a
detour" won't impress people very much as a defense.

Weather permitting, you could always cancel IFR and take whatever route
you want.

You do not have to accept the clearance.

.... and you could be sitting on the ground forever waiting for a better one.
This is actually quite common in the NY/CT area. Freezing level at 4000,
overcast at 2000, I filed for 3000, and got 7000 despite comments to the effect
that I can't accept routings into icing conditions and need to stay below the
freezing level.

We negotiated on the ground for an hour. Their alternative was either 7000 and
their routing, or come back tomorrow. They were not going to give me anything
else for any reason.

So, I accepted the clearance and negotiated in the air. Picking up ice at
7000, I was able to get 8000 and break out on top.

With this in mind, to reject the clearance because it happens to be the same as
a SID won't get you far. At least not in this town. You fly what they want,
or you don't fly.

Jose



--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

We negotiated on the ground for an hour. Their alternative was either 7000 and
their routing, or come back tomorrow. They were not going to give me anything
else for any reason.


I'll add to this... that I brought this up at a WINGS safety meeting (meet with
the controllers) and they confirmed that that is the way they do business in
the NY area.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

In article ,
(Teacherjh) wrote:


We negotiated on the ground for an hour. Their alternative was either 7000
and
their routing, or come back tomorrow. They were not going to give me
anything
else for any reason.


I'll add to this... that I brought this up at a WINGS safety meeting (meet
with
the controllers) and they confirmed that that is the way they do business in
the NY area.

Jose

I've had similar conversations with CD at White Plains. The gist of
them is usually something like, "unable 8000 due to icing", "OK, you
need to work it out with the departure controller once you're in the
air".

It's stupid, but at least you need to stick to your guns. I've done it
a few times. You take off, and check in with departu

"New York, Arrow 3875T, 1200 climbing 3000".

"Radar contact, climb maintain 8000".

"Unable 8000 due to icing"

"Nobody told me that, weren't you cleared to 8000 on the ground?"

"Yup, and I said unable, and the ground controller told me to work it
out with you"

eventually, they find something to do with you, but it sure doesn't seem
like the right way to run things.

"jsmith" wrote in message ...

You do not have to accept the clearance.


That's true. But the alternative may be staying on the ground in the case
of a SID or diverting to another airport in the case of a STAR.

"jsmith" wrote in message ...


Teacherjh wrote:

I always file "NO SIDS OR STARS" in the Remarks.

Don't they just give you the SID or STAR anyway, just spell it out for
you?
They want to vector you far away, they vector you far away./

You do not have to accept the clearance.

You can try going that route. If you get into busy airspace you will fly
the most efficient route for ATC. If you choose not to accept that then you
can wait until the traffic flow slows down. Might be hours.